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The Tale Of A Seriously Confused Tyre Kicker


bigtfuzzywarbler

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Folks

 

I need a small hatch for a combination of work and family duties, i.e the school run, sports, etc. Work trips will be usually within Tasmania and on sealed roads. Our other car is a VW Multivan, so this second car can be compact and would in most cases just be carrying 1 adult and 2-3 kids (<10 years old).

 

This is what brought me to this forum. I am tyre kicker and I just wanted to declare I am not (yet) a Renault owner. I hope it is OK to launch into questions on my first post?  If not, just delete me.

 

I had more or less landed on the Suzuki Swift Sport. I drove one the other day and despite the lack of space in the boot, it seemed like a great little car that is good at what it was designed to do. Owners seem to really love these cars.

 

Then someone said.."Oh, but have you looked at the Renault Clio"...no I hadn't, hadn't crossed my mind in fact (despite previously owning 3 other French cars, 2 * 504 and a 505 GTi wagon).

 

So I took myself off to look at one and they are great. The aesthetics, features and warranty of the Clio are better than the Swift. They are bold and beautiful.

 

It is a close call between the Swift and the Clio. The final negotiated price might be the difference.

 

Then, I made a BIG mistake. I looked at the RS200 Sport. So, for a few grand more I get this? Hmmmm I said to myself., why would I buy the other two?

 

I have now read and watched dozens of reviews on the RS200. I get that for the RS purists, it is a...different...beast, but for the middle aged Dad with four kids whose idea of a night out is a hot bath, two boutique beers and iview on the ipad (all at once).....they are stunning and likely to be a more engaging drive drive than the VW multivan.

 

I have lots of questions/concerns about the RS200 and will continue my research, and will be driving one this week, but my main questions are really issues that only those that have lived with the new shape RS200 could answer.

 

  • What are they like to live with day in day out as a run around town car, particularly with kids and a couple of child seats?
  • Real world fuel economy in town?
  • Will my partner (who is not all interested in cars) really notice what it is pottering around urban streets? Will it just feel like another small hatch?

All of the video reviews are of people flogging them on hilly roads or race tracks and it sounds like there is a bag of cranky possums under the bonnet. I assume that at suburban speeds they are a lot quieter?

 

If I got one I would turn off that stupid digital car sounds thingy. Seriously, who actually thought that the market would value such a feature?

 

Thanks

 

The Fuzz.

Edited by bigtfuzzywarbler
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Ditto to the welcome and buying one :) lol at your night in btw...i can sympathise.

 

OK my 2 cents. I've had mine about 4 x weeks. 2 kids in booster seats and will eventually have 1 booster 1 child's seat and one freestyling when he's 7. Plenty of room and they have iso lock and normal belt points. Keep in mind these cars do not have rear air bags.

In a sport version if you use iPhone it's probably not going to work...this is important as they basically don't work as advertised :( re bt calls and music streaming. These cars are not loud until you put yiure foot down. My wife drives the car regularly and she hasn't said a word about it being too loud. It's a sports car so don't worry too much about fuel economy :) but it's not that bad anyway. They handle beautifully aND go pretty good. You will have a lot of fun :) Don't buy a swift the rs is bigger anyway and you suffer enough in the multivan...as i do in my Sherman tank xc90 :(

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I can relate to this... Haha!

Swap VW multivan for Toyota Tarago.

Four children; 9, 4, 4 and 4.

Yes, the youngest three are all four years old at the moment.

The youngest three are only ten months apart, the youngest two are twins.

I can fit the youngest three in the back of my Clio 172, you should have no issues with a new bigger Clio.

 

http://s166.photobucket.com/user/Itsdamo/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150101_165617_resized_zpsp1wrj85c.jpg.html

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Off topic....but you had 3 kids under 1 year old at the same time!?!? Holy crap what a nightmare. Hopefully they get along so they can at least keep each other amused. You would have been constantly putting food in one end and cleaning up what comes out the other end.

Edited by dessy
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BFW.....real world fuel economy in town is around 9.5 litres per 100km.

 

.My wife loves it to potter around in 'normal' mode to do the shopping, pick up her friends etc. but we don't have young kIds so can't help you with child seat reviews.

 

I absolutely love it as a compromise between a sports car and a sedan.

 

I sold an MX5 to buy my RS200 Sport and it's just as much fun but in a different way....certainly much more power & torque. 

 

By the way I haven't found any problem with bluetooth connection with my iphone but I only use the phone for making & receiving calls and not for music streaming.

 

I am an older guy & very old fashioned apparently as I download all my music to a USB stick and play it through the media system in the car.   :44:   

 

Also the Sport model doesn't have 'the digital car sounds thingy' you hate so much.      :wink:

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Well, I am encouraged by these responses!

 

I will report back to my beloved that the guys and gals on the Oz Renault Sport Forum endorse the Clio RS200.

 

This should be more than enough to drag this one over the line.

 

The absence of airbags in the rear is a little bit of a concern, but I guess the design spec wasn't to make the fastest and safest hot hatch in the world.

 

Also, when I am pulling my hair out trying to get my 3,5,7 & 8 year olds out the door I will put things in perspective  and remember that there is someone out there with 3 all around 4 years of age.

 

Thanks

 

The Fuzz.

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Easy choice Fuzz!

 

And if you want a one year old Sport Premium for the price of a new Sport, send me a PM [emoji12]

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Folks

 

Just back from a test drive at Hobart Renault.  Took the opportunity to drive both the Clio Expression with a 1.2 Turbo and the RS200.

 

As a daily driver and a city car loved the Clio Expression and it has great features for the money.

 

It was great to drive and boogied when you got the revs up. The gearbox.....I think it is simply because I am not used to this style of transmission, but it has a surging and uncertain feel to it. I could live with it though as I think it is just a case of getting used to it.

 

Now the RS200......

 

Firstly I should say I don't have may reference points or sports car experience from which to compare it or really comment as someone who knows sports cars and the kind of things they should be doing. I did spend some time in my bro-in-law's Boxster S last year and loved that (a lot actually, particularly on the roads around Maleny). However that is about the extent of my experience in fast small cars.

 

So, back to car..it was a cracker. Not a fire cracker, but a cracker. I expected it to be a little more...brutish. However, it was quite refined and predictable.

 

Still had the gearbox issue as the lower spec Clio, but more urgency than uncertainty. Importantly it confirmed for me that it could certainly be used as a daily driver. I was surprised at how smooth it was on the Hobart CBD roads. No issues at all there.

 

Biggest downside..rear visibility. Without sensors it would be a nightmare to park in town.

 

Which one am I going to get? Dunno. The Swift Sport is still in contention (I can almost feel dozens of Renault Sport enthusiasts cringing at the thought), but it is good value and quite a few grand less. The Clio 1.2 is also on the list.

 

to be continued..no rush..except that the longer I leave it the more likely it is I miss out on the 2014 specials going on most makes/models.

 

The Fuzz, abuzz.

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Pretty rare to find a "brutish" hot hatch these days - they're all refined and luxurious. That said, the new Clio is much more the consummate all rounder compared to previous generations, with multiple personalities and abilities depending on the context.

 

So, sounds like your issues with the Clios will be the same across all models - power and price will determine which to get.

 

The Swift Sport is fun but really feels like the next price bracket down in fit, finish and quality IMO - well, compared to the Sport anyway.

 

I may have missed it but which model RS200 did you drive?

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My suggestion regarding the gearbox is to approach it as though it were a manual, as after all it is a "roboticised" manual.

 

That way, when you take off you'll be expecting the initial "clutch takeup" as your foot transfers to the accelerator from the brake and smoothly matches the clutch etc. With this in mind, the gearbox "delay" should make sense.

 

As opposed to an auto where it begins to roll as soon as you take your foot of the brake pedal.

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Surely the PH3 RSC200 would be the brutish option? Better brakes, engine, GB etc...

 

Are there any availible in Tassie? I would suggest that you find one and drive it unless your lady is not into manuals.

Why? No issue with brake performance on the IV.

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Manual not an issue and I would actually prefer one.

 

I am surprised there hasn't been much chatter in the Renault sport community on why they didn't bring this one out in a manual? (No, I am not serious).

 

The pondering continues and my ability to over analyse things is still a curse and a blessing (I am an Infrastructure planner/analyst by trade). The cost benefit analysis spreadsheet, built with a weighted Multi criteria analysis and life cycle costing is getting a workout!

 

What am I pondering? Airbags, and the lack of them in the rear and weather overall the RS200 is materially a less safe vehicle for people in the back than the others on the list.

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Surely the PH3 RSC200 would be the brutish option? Better brakes, engine, GB etc...

 

Are there any availible in Tassie? I would suggest that you find one and drive it unless your lady is not into manuals.

The MkIV RSC 200 actually had an increase in rotor size; therefore increased performance? although no Brembo calipers.

 

I would have thought that Renault could have offered both EDC and Manual concurrently. A manual was used in the Nissan range, wasn't it? As you have little ones to be travelling in the back seats, airbags are an important decision. I wasn't aware there were no rear curtain airbags in the new RS Clio. Best of luck.

 

 

Edit: Apologies to all for covering the same ground re: transmission; been a long day. :blush:

Edited by AnthB
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I would say if you are debating about safety of the vehicle due it not having rear airbags you first need to consider the qualities of the car in regards to accident avoidance. Chances are it is a more capable and better handling car than others you are considering, thus you will most likely never need the rear airbags, whereas in a lesser car you may very well need them due to the cars inabilty to go around corners, stop, etc. all the things which are fundamentally important.

In this day and age it is all about how many cup holders it has, or how many airbags it has... God forbid most of them have no other redeeming features as a car.

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I'm all for airbags in the rear seat. It was a real consideration in buying our family car. Keep in mind they will most likely be needed in a T bone crash caused by someone else failing to give way/stop. In that scenario it doesn't matter what fancy gizmos your car has, it's the other car that is the problem.

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Thanks folks for your comments, inputs and enthusiasm. This is a great community and website.

 

I am going to retreat into my box, process some more information and flip a few coins.

 

I'll either be back as a card carrying member........or.........you'll find me on a Swift, Golf or SP25 forum.

 

The Fuzz

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Decisions made with the head lead to mediocrity, decisions with the heart open up the world.......

Totally agreed!  Look at my "resume" of cars......."from the heart" resonates with me eg Alfa and now RS ownership  Fact be known my resume excludes several cars purchased "from the head."   Typically these cars  have been lacking..... ownership has been dissatisfying.

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Hi Pokinacha, the GTA caught fire a year ago http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/newslocal/north-shore/alfa-romeo-bursts-into-flames-in-st-ives/story-fngr8h9d-1226843688296

Being an Alfista, logical replacement was a GQV however I just could not get satisfied.  The RS was as close as I could get to a GTA and does so many things better save for not making a Busso noise !  I had firmly decided not to down the path of buying a GTA again or even a GT.  I loved that GTA and had brought it up to first class condition but it was my daily and the ongoing financial outlay to keep it schmick was significant. I was over the blood, sweat and tears.  That said if my GTA hadn't caught fire I would most likely still own it!  Such is the GTA illness!!! 

 

From time to time I do miss owning an Alfa given my history with the brand.   It's great Alfa seem to be finally getting their act together because one day I would like to buy another.  That said I'm very happy with the RS, it's been such a competent, quality and reliable car.

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Hi Pokinacha, the GTA caught fire a year ago http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/newslocal/north-shore/alfa-romeo-bursts-into-flames-in-st-ives/story-fngr8h9d-1226843688296

Being an Alfista, logical replacement was a GQV however I just could not get satisfied.  The RS was as close as I could get to a GTA and does so many things better save for not making a Busso noise !  I had firmly decided not to down the path of buying a GTA again or even a GT.  I loved that GTA and had brought it up to first class condition but it was my daily and the ongoing financial outlay to keep it schmick was significant. I was over the blood, sweat and tears.  That said if my GTA hadn't caught fire I would most likely still own it!  Such is the GTA illness!!! 

 

From time to time I do miss owning an Alfa given my history with the brand.   It's great Alfa seem to be finally getting their act together because one day I would like to buy another.  That said I'm very happy with the RS.

 

Sorry to hijack the thread talking about Alfa's

 

But that sucks! Did you have the sh*tty plastic high pressure fuel rail hose split and piss petrol everywhere? That happened to my GTA too. Luckily it didn't melt anything.

 

To the OP, The PH 3 200 is a great car. I drove one around Europe for 11,000kms including the Nurburgring, through Modena, Tuscany and into Monaco and it didn't look out of place anywhere. Comfy and relatively fuel efficient considering they do 4000rpm at 140km/h on the autobahn/autostradas

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Sorry to hijack the thread talking about Alfa's

 

But that sucks! Did you have the sh*tty plastic high pressure fuel rail hose split and piss petrol everywhere? That happened to my GTA too. Luckily it didn't melt anything.

 

To the OP, The PH 3 200 is a great car. I drove one around Europe for 11,000kms including the Nurburgring, through Modena, Tuscany and into Monaco and it didn't look out of place anywhere. Comfy and relatively fuel efficient considering they do 4000rpm at 140km/h on the autobahn/autostradas

The fuel rail had been placed two years prior however is theory no 1. At the most recent service, electrical work was carried out - replaced burnt wiring. Electrical problem is therefore theory no 2 - anyway it is all academic now!
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Well....the short story..nuh..can't do it.

 

Notwithstanding all the great (no, awesome) things about the RS200 I can't put my kids in the back of a car that doesn't have airbags.

 

This was not an easy decision and I spent a lot of time researching the issue, almost looking for ways to justify buying the Clio.

 

If it was just myself and a partner, with friends occasionally in the back, I could probably live (or not) with no airbags in the back.

 

In the end it came down to one simple point. No matter how good a driver you are, or how many safety features you have, if some idiot runs an intersection and smacks into the side of the car in the passenger area, airbags would make a significant difference to the outcome. The data shows this clearly to me.

 

So, to reference back to a previous comment from a forum member on this thread...I made the decision with my heart, as our four little ones are just too precious to take the risk.

 

Notwithstanding my disappointment of not getting a lovely red RS200, I have enjoyed getting to know Renault  and dealing with members on this forum. Tonight I even found myself checking out prices for the older Clio sports on Carsales. Who knows I may be back blabbing on about track times at Baskerville in a 2005 Clio Sport rocketship.

 

Oh..so what did I buy?..Well another decision made with the heart...a 2014 Swift Sport. I drove lots of other cars and in terms of dynamics nothing came close to the Swift Sport. There were more comfortable cars, better appointed, doors that went "thunk", but as a car to actually drive and get enjoyment from (as opposed to just steer) the Swift Sport was the best (and it has airbags in the back).

 

See you 'round folks.

 

The Fuzz

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