Upgrading a Scenic with RS-Components

[clixx-io]

Hi All,

 

RenaultSport is all well and good but I like a Camper and prefer a car that I can sleep in the back. So I bought an '03 Scenic with a F4R. I want to upgrade it to bring it closer to having RS performance. I don't need a racecar - but it would be handy having something with a bit of punch.

 

Before I bought it, I did some RS research and it seems there's some similarity in the F4R blocks.

 

I notice that the Clio-RS have the same power curve as the basic F4R to 5,500rpm (101Kw). I feel my revv limiter is in an abitory position at 5,500. The engine stops revving before the powerband is reached That's really annoying. Do they artificially peg back the power in Scenics? I expect an RS ECU would overcome this issue.

 

Then I need more airflow - I notice the RS Inlets and Manifolds support more airflow. So I should be able to swap in an RS-Exhaust and Inlet Manifold, upgrade the Injectors and then have something close?

[R182]

Welcome. Interesting project, although I'm not sure it's that simple. There are a few Scenic owners on here who may be able to provide some advice.

 

 

Inspiration ...

 

[Tommo]

Just find an rs engine and ecu and drop them in. All the cams, bottom end, pistons, vvt etc... Is different.

 

Same block, different party.

[camsmyth]

Just find an rs engine and ecu and drop them in. All the cams, bottom end, pistons, vvt etc... Is different.

 

Same block, different party.

I think the difficulty is what will be compatible. Is the wiring the same. Will the UCH talk to an rs ECU. Will the rs gearbox connect with the scenic shafts (or scenic box to the rs engine and if so is it strong enough). Will the water/air con/power steering pipes meet up. Are the engine mounts and dogbone the same.

 

Totally possible, and if you're handy at a reasonable cost, but it'll get expensive quickly if you have to pay for labour/fabrication. Could also consider a 225 conversion but speaking from experience I'd say costs would climb quickly!

[clixx-io]

Maybe. But that's a big/expensive job to do a full replace.

 

Tinkering with one part at a time seems to be a bit more reversable as the vehicle is needed as a daily-drive.

 

A few seconds here or there at WOT is the typical use-case. I doubt I really need a stronger bottom-end for modest gains.

[camsmyth]

Maybe. But that's a big/expensive job to do a full replace.

 

Tinkering with one part at a time seems to be a bit more reversable as the vehicle is needed as a daily-drive.

 

A few seconds here or there at WOT is the typical use-case. I doubt I really need a stronger bottom-end for modest gains.

Only one way to find out! If your in Sydney I can lend you an intake manifold (not positive it will fit), injectors, ECU (not sure if anyone can "adjust" the Scenic ECU) You will probably also need the throttle (not sure if connections are the same, also Map sensor wiring to consider). I suspect the wiring/ECU will be the stumbling block.

[clixx-io]

Thanks.

 

I'd be happy to buy them. I found them on the UK ebay ie: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/331201645464 ... 1423.l2649

 

All these parts seem to be going in the bin in Europe - too old and useless.

[R182]

Everything is cheap over there ... it's getting someone to post to convict-ville that seems to be the issue.

[wade]

Interesting project.

 

Maybe we could help more if we knew your budget?

[camsmyth]

 

 

Thanks.

I'd be happy to buy them. I found them on the UK ebay ie: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/331201645464 ... 1423.l2649

All these parts seem to be going in the bin in Europe - too old and useless.

Haha. Yep, I bought a few phase 1 bits from the UK. As mentioned above the postage is always pricey!

Happy to lend you the items and if it works you can buy (can agree a price). Even the mani could be a pain. As mentioned there is the sensors to wire plus the 172/182 Mani has a whopping breather hole which needs to seal against the rocker cover (scenic may be the same). There is also the throttle and I suspect the scenic runs coil on plug which won't fit under the rs manifold. I'm sure there is more! Pm me if you're interested (hopefully you're in Sydney). Edited 7, October 2016 by camsmyth

[vaughan]

Interesting project.

 

Maybe we could help more if we knew your budget?

 

If it's around $4000 then just buy a cheap 172.

 

 

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[R182]

Interesting project.

 

Maybe we could help more if we knew your budget?

 

If it's around $4000 then just buy a cheap 172.

 

 

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... and the back seats fold flat if you are vertically challenged or like to sleep in the foetal position.

 

 

There seem to be a few modded Scenics OS but I suspect they had some sort of turbo diesel version that may needed a chip.

 

 

[Gambit]

I say go all out and just turbo charge the scenic

 

 

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[clixx-io]

I say go all out and just turbo charge the scenic

 

That's an option. That's actually what I really want to do. I already have a Turbo and just need to get the Turbo-manifold and then tweek a few things like the fueling.

 

Maybe we could help more if we knew your budget?

 

Too small. Just buy a few pieces here and there and slap them on.

 

But so far so good. Performance is up close to some WRX's and an M3 from takeoff. But some worked Turbo Forester smashed me (by a little bit) so I can see there is more potential. And I haven't really even done much yet.

 

Someone took me for a ride in their Clio Sport and I could see how good RS can be and their potential.

[wade]

If you want any gains you will need to spend some cash.

 

Turboing will require an aftermarket ecu and dyno tune at least (both will cost 1k +)

 

There is also no way a scenic is quicker than an WRX and M3 from standstill...... You're dreaming mate

 

If this isn't a troll (of which I'm not convinced) then you should just chop the exhaust so it sounds quicker

[R182]

Renault Boy's camper-van adventure!

[clixx-io]

If you want any gains you will need to spend some cash.

 

Sure.

 

Turboing will require an aftermarket ecu and dyno tune at least (both will cost 1k +)

 

$1K is fine. I can make my own patch ECU, done it before.

 

There is also no way a scenic is quicker than an WRX and M3 from standstill...... You're dreaming mate

 

I wasn't.

 

WRX's aren't that fast until their Turbo's kick in. Which is after about 30kmh. M3's aren't that common - so not such a worry.

 

Renault Boy's camper-van adventure!

 

Just want one car with everything I want, Camping + Sports-Car

[acrRS250]

Just want one car with everything I want, Camping + Sports-Car

 

If you could find a manual one of these and import it, it'd be a great start! Scenic has nothing on these masterpieces

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RENAULT-AVANTIME-3-0-V6-PRIVILEGE-AUTO-/191472685921?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item2c94a95361

[DOOOOK]

This project now needs a Members Ride thread with pictures.

 

I'm happy to give away any parts that I have lying around.

[clixx-io]

I can't get an Avantime here.

 

In my opinion the Avantime is just a Scenic-II with a 2.9L Laguna Engine. I'm personally convinced that the Scenic-II got all it's styling queues from that Avantime design.

 

A 2.9L might fit with cajoling but having it engineered (and then Turbo'd) is out of my budget at this stage.

 

Do I want a 2.9L Turbo Scenic? Yes - later - probably - but not for now.

 

My RS-Sport stickers arrived from France. If they go onto the Car then the project must start

[R182]

OK ... need pics or this goes in the category with "The Dark One".

[clixx-io]

Dyno run is booked for monday.

 

I will post that as a starting point. Guy kept on saying "What car?" I said "My Scenic".. he said "Where?".. so frustrating.

[dessy]

Just want one car with everything I want, Camping + Sports-Car

 

If you could find a manual one of these and import it, it'd be a great start! Scenic has nothing on these masterpieces

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RENAULT-AVANTIME-3-0-V6-PRIVILEGE-AUTO-/191472685921?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item2c94a95361

 

Wow! That thing is ugly especially with the white roof and slats over the headlights, trying way to hard....

[wade]

Dyno run is booked for monday.

 

I will post that as a starting point. Guy kept on saying "What car?" I said "My Scenic".. he said "Where?".. so frustrating.

Awesome, look forward to seeing the power put out by the WRX slaying scenic

[clixx-io]

Here's part of the inspiration:

 

- http://www.topgear.com/au/videos/avantime-part-1

 

The roof is Silver not White. There's Part-2 and Part-3 Somewhere on the net.

[DOOOOK]

Guy kept on saying "What car?" I said "My Scenic".. he said "Where?".. so frustrating.

 

Sounds like an episode from 'Welcome Back Kotter'.

7w_ep-m4rxI

[Jensen]

There was/is a supercharged scenic down here in Melbourne. Think Auto Paris bought it, might be worth a call to them.

[clixx-io]

Even the mani could be a pain. As mentioned there is the sensors to wire plus the 172/182 Mani has a whopping breather hole which needs to seal against the rocker cover (scenic may be the same).

 

Ok - got that. I was just planning to move all the sensors out of the old manifold into the new. I'm pretty good with moving sensors and electronics. The hole is I take it the PCV pipe?. It's quite large on the RS compared to what I've seen in Japanese cars - but no biggie.

 

Thanks for your attention in pointing these things out.

 

There is also the throttle and I suspect the scenic runs coil on plug which won't fit under the rs manifold.

 

So the RS runs seperate ignition coils? Is that what sits in the housing at the top of the inlet manifold?

[ace]

If this isn't a troll (of which I'm not convinced)

 

Call spotted

[camsmyth]

Ok - got that. I was just planning to move all the sensors out of the old manifold into the new. I'm pretty good with moving sensors and electronics. The hole is I take it the PCV pipe?. It's quite large on the RS compared to what I've seen in Japanese cars - but no biggie.

 

Assuming the sensors fit, othwise may need to weld some bungs in. There is a large pipe at the rear of the head then a tiny pin prick in the top of the head, against which the hole in the intake mani seals.

 

So the RS runs seperate ignition coils? Is that what sits in the housing at the top of the inlet manifold?

 

Correct. The Clio 3 ran COP so a mani from one of them may be an option (but harder to get and I'm not 100% on the intake port shape, same for the scenic for that matter!).

[clixx-io]

Thanks @camsmyth for helping out so much. Here's the photo we took.

 

 

I know it's not screwed in or anything. I think the next step for me is going to track down something that I can use as an Ignition Module and research more closely what will be involved in the throttle-body changeover.

 

So I'm planning to stay in contact as it was a very enjoyable afternoon coming over and seeing all the great kit you had in your garage.

[Gambit]

Great work boys, now following this with interest.

 

 

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[walkie86]

Wow! That thing is ugly especially with the white roof and slats over the headlights, trying way to hard....

 

I'm actually going to report your post and request you are banned.

 

Blasphemy.

[acrRS250]

Wow! That thing is ugly especially with the white roof and slats over the headlights, trying way to hard....

 

I'm actually going to report your post and request you are banned.

 

Blasphemy.

 

 

Be gentle mate, I think he's new.

[clixx-io]

Ok, well I've hit a fork in the road.

 

I was getting some good performance out of my standard F4R, whatever I did was working well till the other day.

 

Then, the expected happened. I was driving out of a tunnel up the hill, used a small amount of wot, and then bzzzzz... engine-night-night.

 

The mechanic came back and said that F4R Renault engines are crap - well the poverty editions like mine anyhow. He said the camshafts just sit on something or other and aren't held down. So that the timing belts or something can jump a tooth. btw - timing belt change 4-weeks ago.

 

Mechanic refuses to put a Clio Sport Engine in because typical story "Won't end well - sensors/computers/mounts".

 

I can buy a 2008 Clio Sport Engine - for $1500 - I want to - but my mechanic says no.

 

I can accept stuffing around... things not being exactly right etc....

 

Help?? Want to know where to go from here.

[ace]

Ok, well I've hit a fork in the road.

 

I was getting some good performance out of my standard F4R, whatever I did was working well till the other day.

 

Then, the expected happened. I was driving out of a tunnel up the hill, used a small amount of wot, and then bzzzzz... engine-night-night.

 

The mechanic came back and said that F4R Renault engines are crap - well the poverty editions like mine anyhow. He said the camshafts just sit on something or other and aren't held down. So that the timing belts or something can jump a tooth. btw - timing belt change 4-weeks ago.

 

Mechanic refuses to put a Clio Sport Engine in because typical story "Won't end well - sensors/computers/mounts".

 

I can buy a 2008 Clio Sport Engine - for $1500 - I want to - but my mechanic says no.

 

I can accept stuffing around... things not being exactly right etc....

 

Help?? Want to know where to go from here.

 

The scenic shares a lot with the 225, I'd drop a 225 motor into it.

[cloudy]

This is about as crazy as my idea of putting the 225 lump into a megane convertible.

 

Do it, drop the 225 lump into a Scenic

 

Mind you, 172 engines are piss easy to find, there's a few on sale right now...

[R182]

... might need to find a more enthusiastic mechanic.

[Braymac]

If I had a timing related engine failure 4 weeks after a timing belt service (and I had paid a mechanic for the job ) I'd be doing all kinds of jumping up and down..

Edited 14, February 2015 by Braymac

[wade]

Yep me too.

 

'Nah mate, engine blowing up had nothing to do with me changng the belt...... It's the way they build those engines'

 

What a load of sh*t, find a better mechanic

[walkie86]

Jeez - I'm with the others! Time for a new mechanic! 225 (F4RT) lump would be great but as said, 172/182 (F4R) might be easier to find.

[Matt205]

I reckon it's time for some out of the box thinking, I'd be looking for a wrecked Prius and adapting the synergy drive system to stock 1.6 clio engine, add a turbo and convert it to chain driven cams to ensure reliabilty.

 

Sounds like the mechanic could handle it, he's right about those F4R engines being rubbish, I mean it's not like a Clio Cup car has ever finished a 24hr endurance race without failing and those Sodemo F4R F3 engines explode on the warm up lap everytime....

Edited 14, February 2015 by Matt205

[Quadrastu]

I've got to agree that your mechanic is way out of his depth but is not going to admit it.......

 

Personally I'd get an engine, ecu, loom etc from a 172/182 and get the ecu decoded. I did it a few years back putting a 182 motor into a Mk1 Clio and ran a Pulsar Gtir intake/throttle body set up on the stock ecu.

 

 

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[jets4]

Wow just found this thread!! how awesome   

We have the back seats out of our Scenic and I swear Dish drives it like it is an RS all the time.. I don't usually bother until we get to the twisties and then I put the foot in a bit haha   tis fun bouncing around the corners haha .. 

 

I actually find that she gets up and goes pretty well just got to rev her and work her a bit but hey   

 

I do like the idea of putting a 225 engine in there! ha or a 172 engine..

 

BTW your Mechanic sounds like he is a sandwich short of a picnic or a beer short of a six pack.. or just damn insulting..  lucky he hadn't said that to me.. where do people get off saying such #$%%$ about that engine is beyond me     They are awesome we have that block x 4 at our place and each one has been awesome (touch wood) haha .. could go off topic about how Dishs nephew told us that ah yeah once your cars get a 100K on them and are 8 years old you will be able to tell how unreliable they are.. lol we said they are already there and most of those kms have been drive days where they would get driven harder than any Toyota (the make he was telling us was reliable) and we have never had any issues.. 

 

Anyway that rant over! so curious to see how this ends  as I would love a camper too!   Dish has some weird idea about putting a V6 engine in the back of our scenic- which would really ruin any camping stuff room    so if I can get him into a 225 engine at the front even better - although I do prefer the sound of a naturally aspirated engine!

 

 

 

Now following this thread with interest- and sorry no valid ideas - other than upgrade the mechanic

[ace]

I reckon it's time for some out of the box thinking, I'd be looking for a wrecked Prius and adapting the synergy drive system to stock 1.6 clio engine, add a turbo and convert it to chain driven cams to ensure reliabilty.

 

Sounds like the mechanic could handle it, he's right about those F4R engines being rubbish, I mean it's not like a Clio Cup car has ever finished a 24hr endurance race without failing and those Sodemo F4R F3 engines explode on the warm up lap everytime....

 

You're sure you're not the mechanic?

[clixx-io]

 

I've got to agree that your mechanic is way out of his depth but is not going to admit it.......

 

Personally I'd get an engine, ecu, loom etc from a 172/182 and get the ecu decoded. I did it a few years back putting a 182 motor into a Mk1 Clio and ran a Pulsar Gtir intake/throttle body set up on the stock ecu.

I'm starting to not like these mechanics much. Mechanic-A, who did the timing-belt change is now fired. It doesn't serve any purpose to go back and 'talk'. He's made some other 'errors' too.

 

The comments I made are actually from the Mechanic-B where the car is now. Maybe he isn't so clever - but he has tried a few Megane engine changes - some worked - some not.

 

If it can't be done quickly, then I need to buy a temporary-car.

[My Name is Earl]

sh*t man just call up Renotech. Problem solved.

[Matt205]

Not sure the lads need that much awesome in their lives....

[nemz]

I have a 172 engine, ECU and loom if you decide on the less extreme option.

[clixx-io]

I have a 172 engine, ECU and loom if you decide on the less extreme option.

 

Thanks nemz,

 

It looks like I'm going with your 172-Engine. I've had someone tell me offline it's in good condition - it will be going to a good home !