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205 GTI compared with a 172/182


domlebo70
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Hi guys,

 

I currently have a very clean S3 205 GTI, that I adore. It's a little tired, and not as brisk as it once was.

 

I'm looking at upgrading to a 172 (not 182, as they are still damn expensive). I'd just like to hear your thoughts on what they're like versus the 205.

 

Main reasons I'm getting rid of the 205 is: safety, a little less raw (i drive a lot of highway clicks, and not every road is a tarmac rally :P), newer and less maintenance.

 

What do you think?

 

Dom

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Do it! 172 was the first car I drove after owning 205's that had the same feel (great torque/weight in a go kart chassis) but in a more modern package. Funnily enough I only said to Mrs Moosey the other night that having driven a few 200's lately and then going for a squirt in the 172, that the 172 vs the 200 now feels like the 205 did versus the 172 when the clio was newer. The 172 feels a bit old school now but with a huge grin factor. So you should be right at home :)

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Do it! 172 was the first car I drove after owning 205's that had the same feel (great torque/weight in a go kart chassis) but in a more modern package. Funnily enough I only said to Mrs Moosey the other night that having driven a few 200's lately and then going for a squirt in the 172, that the 172 vs the 200 now feels like the 205 did versus the 172 when the clio was newer. The 172 feels a bit old school now but with a huge grin factor. So you should be right at home :)

What's the torque like compared to the 205? I find the 205 struggling massively if out of gear or below 3.5k, and it runs out of puff at 6k :(

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As you suggest, it sounds like your 205 engine has seen better days. My last one (a 1.6 track car) revved to 6.5K and was still pulling hard at that point. The motor had been rebuilt during my ownership. The Clio revs to 7.2K and peak torque is low in the band at 200Nm. Plenty for 1035kg. It's a fair bit quicker point to point than a stock 205.

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My seat-of-the-pants impression was that all the 172s I drove, and the 182 Cup I bought, felt substantially quicker that the various 205 GTi 1.9s I've driven. I did always think the GTi never lived up to my expectations, performance wise.

 

Always loved the handling and connectedness in the 205 though. I think you'd find the driving experience and style required similar, though the steering in the Clio feels a bit remote compared to the heavy 205 feel (including the power steered ones). The Clio feels a much more modern car, which is nice most of the time. I don't think it has the character of the 205, but maybe I'm being sentimental.

 

The guy I sold my Cup to had sold and regretted selling a fairly modified S3 205. He thought the 182 would be an ideal replacement, but found it less torquey than he felt his GTi had been.

 

Contradicts my experiences, so the best thing is to test a few Clios and see what you think. There's nothing in it performance-wise between the 172 & 182, but the later car feels a bit more controlled in the suspension and looks better IMO.

 

Enjoy your search!

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Thanks Tubbsy, that's interesting.

 

Yeah I am somewhat disappointed by the 205's performance. I mean it's hilarious fun around bends, and the steering feedback and transparency is something else. But I've always been scared of pushing it much in fast bends because of the rears tendency to slide very quickly, and how exposed you feel.

 

It's straightline speed is a bit of a downer too. Fine when you are revving it hard, but even taking off on a steep hill, if you switch 2nd a fraction too early you are f**ked.

 

I like the 182 more, but it's still very pricey compared to 182's. I suppose I'll just have to get test-driving :P

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Welcome :D

 

Interesting to read everyone's views on the topic. I fell for the 205 GTI as a school kid, and swore I'd get one, one day... instead I found myself in what I reckon is its spiritual successor, the 172. Apart from having a brief ride in one about 2-3 years ago, I've never driven a 205. Good ones are hard to come by nowadays, from what I've heard too.

 

ITheLiving, former 182 Cup owner and member here, had a good write up on a well loved 205 recently on his blog.

 

If you need some incentive to leave the old girl, take a squiz at this:

8PcZ0dPBask

 

:news:

 

Cheers, Dish.

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Less: it's at 70km/h!

 

Here's a couple for Renault... first is for a Clio II (not the RS though). The last one is quite humorous, and yet they all seem to be moving under their own steam at the end!

 

F1IQdbMEZA4

 

oEaGjVnKKrs

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Hi Dom,

I got your PM on Aussiefrogs, but thought I'd contribute to this thread instead.

 

I really enjoy driving my 182 Cup. It is a lot more stable/sure footed than my 205 was and has a lot more grip, but it is still a lot of fun to chuck around. The rear end is no where near as "mobile" as it is on a 205, but that's probably for the better in most situations. My 205 wouldn't have seen which way the 182 Cup went down a twisty road. I think the best way to describe it is MENTAL. :lol:

 

The engine is noticeably stronger than the 205's from about 3K rpm and revs hard all the way to the limiter at 7.2K. Above 5K, it shows the old 1.9L 8 valve engine how things should be done :nod:

Note that my 205 GTi had the low compression DFZ motor, so was probably not as strong at the top of the rev range as yours is.

I haven't had issues with the Clio not getting up hills, it still pulls OK from 2K rpm.

 

When driving slowly in traffic, my Clio can feel a little boring, where the 205 still had plenty of character. But it does make the Clio easier to live with.

 

It's great having air conditioning that works, although it does struggle a little bit if it's over 35 degrees and the car has been parked out in the sun.

 

I found the seats and the seating position in the 205 more comfortable than in the Clio. The Clio's steering wheel is a bit too far away, or then you're a bit too close to the pedals, and the seat is a little firm and wide for my liking. But I can live with it.

The Clio has less engine noise, road noise and rattles than the 205, which does make it more bearable on the freeways. It's still not a quiet car at 3K+ rpm, but a decent improvement on the 205.

 

Also, the headlights are much brighter than the 205's.

 

The 205 is better over tabletop speed bumps than the Clio is. It just seemed to soak them up at any speed, where the Clio seems a bit harsh at slower speeds, but soaks them up OK when moving a bit faster.

 

I still think the 205 GTi feels like it has "something" that is missing from the Clio. A bit more steering feel and the sense that it wanted me to drive it hard at any opportunity. But the Clio is not far behind at all and quite a bit easier to live with. Partly because it is much newer and has less age related issues.

 

I tried a 206 GTi180, but it didn't "click" with me the same way the 182 Cup did.

 

That's all for now...

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SamR, thanks heaps for the reply, it's REALLY appreciated :D

 

Yeah you are right about the character. If I had the opportunity of keeping it as a weekend car I would.

 

I think for me, the 172 sounds perfect. The balls out attitude of the 205 with a little modernity and comfort for a daily drive. What is it about French hatchbacks :P

 

Now to find a clean 172, some niceish rims (thinking keeping it safe with some Trophy style wheels - Turinis).

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domie- there's a 182 Cup on sale here for $14k. If you're doing highway K's I would strongly recommend the extra coin, as I credit the cruise and speed limiter functions with me being able to keep my licence...

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domie- there's a 182 Cup on sale here for $14k. If you're doing highway K's I would strongly recommend the extra coin, as I credit the cruise and speed limiter functions with me being able to keep my licence...

 

+1 on the cruise control in the 182. That also makes it easier to live with on long highway drives.

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Welcome Dom! You've made a great choice with the RSC 8) I find the Clio plenty fast enough and my 172 (with exhaust and stripped rear interior) keeps up with an NA S2 Exige down the straight at Wakefield 8)

 

I'd also be looking for a 182 - they're just that little bit newer + cruise control is great too.

 

Now to find a clean 172, some niceish rims (thinking keeping it safe with some Trophy style wheels - Turinis).

 

I'd be saving the cash you'd spend on Turinis ($1500+) and putting that towards getting a 182 which already has 16" wheels 8)

 

Good luck with your search and let us know how you get on. I'm sure there'd be willing participants to show you their car and what it can do :mrgreen:

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I realise this question has been asked hundreds of times, but is there an FAQ I could read on basic tuning options? Simple things, like induction kits, exhausts etc. What's the go with 172's?

 

Just trying to find out as much as possible.

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I also came from a (Ph1) 205 1.9 when I bought the 172.

In many ways they are similar, but the 172 is SO much better all round.

I had them both for about a month, used to take the 205 out sometimes and was always shocked at how much things had moved in 10 years. Same has happened with the 197/200, but they are much bigger cars. Different vibe.

No-one makes anything like a 172/182 anymore, why I'm hanging on to mine.

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I also came from a (Ph1) 205 1.9 when I bought the 172.

In many ways they are similar, but the 172 is SO much better all round.

I had them both for about a month, used to take the 205 out sometimes and was always shocked at how much things had moved in 10 years. Same has happened with the 197/200, but they are much bigger cars. Different vibe.

No-one makes anything like a 172/182 anymore, why I'm hanging on to mine.

Moved on - in terms of refinement? Speed? Grip? Engine tractability.

 

How have you found it funwise? 172 much less intense for daily driving?

 

I'm basically set on a 172. I mean they are so ridiculously cheap, it's a no brainer.

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Just everything is better.

More fun, because you're so much more confident you do more.

If you crash you won't die, 205s were made of pie-trays.

172 like a smaller 306GTi6 Pug, but with all it's grunt.

It's vastly better than a 206GTi, (I haven't driven a GTi180)

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Welcome Dom,

Whereabouts in Brissie are you in?

I've read all the above and pretty much agree (from where i can), there is a real sure footedness about the Clio. Light on it's toes, yet solid and stable to make you feel ridiculously planted.

May i ask your budget, as that may help some direct you in the right direction.

Cheers and good luck,

WOLF

ps: funny you should mention Turinis.

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Hey Wolf,

 

I'm in Yeronga atm.

 

My budget is really whatever it costs :P Not really willing to spend more then 12k however. That seems to be about the ceiling with 172's. I would need to do something about the wheels, because the 172 stock ones look hideous. I can make my piece with the 182's but the 172's are terrible imo.

 

I cannot buy until my 205 is out. Getting photos done this weekend, and it should be up on the forums/carsales soon. It's such a shame about the safety factor and having it as a daily driver, because every time I drive it, I end up with a HUGE grin on my face and it makes me think long and hard about selling it :P I start bargaining, and saying things like "Meh f**k safety".

 

Can't wait to start looking at some 172's.

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As I've said, forget 182's... they are a lot more cash, for not much more car when compared to a 172. Really, you're just buying lower kays if you get one.

 

As for 172's, I wouldn't be paying over $10k for one... you can get a fantastic car well under that mark.

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Welcome Dom.

 

+1 vote for the 172 over 182. There are more options suspension-wise with the 172 over the 182 Cup and if you go for a 182 non-cup there's bugger all difference between the two otherwise.

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There's a 172 Phase 1 (only 85 released in Australia) for sale at a dealer on the Gold Coast at the moment. A bit high in the km's but you won't need to spend anything on aftermarket wheels.

Just checked it out. Same as the one on carsales.

 

To be honest, I'm not that keen on a Ph1. They look the business, but the interior is a little too dated for me. Unless one came around in VERY good nick, I'd rather a phase 2. Wouldn't mind the longer gear ratios/less weight though.

 

Update on my car - being detailed monday next week, and getting photos as soon as it's done :( Shame aussiefrogs is down atm. Wonder if anyone on ozRS is interested.

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To be honest, I'm not that keen on a Ph1. They look the business, but the interior is a little too dated for me. Unless one came around in VERY good nick, I'd rather a phase 2. Wouldn't mind the longer gear ratios/less weight though.

The Phase 1 is the most '205' esque Clio that you will find :wink:

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