Newbie - thinking of RS280

[SARS280]

Hi, I'm considering purchase of the upcoming RS280 and looking for advice on Renault reliability now they have dropped to 3 year warranty. Also what are service costs like compared to other brands.

ive previously owned 2 x XR5's and currently a modded ford Kuga that is a 0-100kmh 5.9 second car. Looking at the rs280 EDC model in red and not looking to modify as it will likely be purchased though novated lease etc.... 

[chuckovski]

Hi and welcome

Yes the forum has been awash with uproar about the warranty.

I bought my Megane III expecting 3 year warranty after feedback from this forum. I 'accidentally' got 5! Never really needed it. Very very minor stuff that is common with any car I ever had.

The drop to 5 years is bizarre. Especially when the rest of the range gets the 5 years. And the reversal makes people understandably concerned.

The main concern from people is the automatic you're interested in: coming from a DSG Skoda which was the bane of my life at the time. Stops me from considering anything automatic from VAG in the near future. People report similar issues with the Clio IV buy also having one I never had any issues with it and it's at 85000km!

Can I suggest you call Renault Australia and tell them you're having second thoughts due to this stupid decision? They don't seem to care about what current Renault owners think; potential owners may make them think twice.

[chuckovski]

Also in regards to service costs I had three capped services at $299 but dealers will be dealers and ensuring they simply do what they say is like rolling a dice. I've found that with any brand, not just Renault. "Give it to the apprentice" and let the apprentice wash a car instead of actually working on the car seems to be the attitude.

They're in an alliance with Nissan so comparable prices there. Similar to my Skoda and Mazda and Citroen cars present and past

With Megane III and Clio III and II (all F4R and F4RT engines) you had to get the belts done every 4 years and that is about $1500 worth of services. The new engines seem to be chain driven (Clio IV is).

[SARS280]

Thanks for feedback. Will def hit up dealership about 5 year warranty issue as well as service costs, though the novated lease issue will cover me for those costs for 5 year ownership. I tried the Clio RS200 a few years ago and was impressed with EDC setup. My wife has an i30SR and I only ever drive it via this shift paddles which is very good so I don't think I'll have a prob with rs280 edc setup.

have seen just about every YouTube review on the rs280 and very impressed with the tech and quality so am ver you keen. Will know more on Tuesday after seeing my accountant and tax return

[chuckovski]

Thanks for feedback. Will def hit up dealership about 5 year warranty issue as well as service costs, though the novated lease issue will cover me for those costs for 5 year ownership. I tried the Clio RS200 a few years ago and was impressed with EDC setup. My wife has an i30SR and I only ever drive it via this shift paddles which is very good so I don't think I'll have a prob with rs280 edc setup.
have seen just about every YouTube review on the rs280 and very impressed with the tech and quality so am ver you keen. Will know more on Tuesday after seeing my accountant and tax return [emoji4]

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on it.
Maybe also contact Renault Australia because the dealers have no control over the warranty and may not pass on your feedback.

[Steveo16]

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on it.
Maybe also contact Renault Australia because the dealers have no control over the warranty and may not pass on your feedback.

If the gearbox is VAG, make sure it’s wet clutch, not dry, the latter were horrific wear wise. The former are dearer to service, but last heaps longer, if you like driving like life’s a video game!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[chuckovski]

If the gearbox is VAG, make sure it’s wet clutch, not dry, the latter were horrific wear wise. The former are dearer to service, but last heaps longer, if you like driving like life’s a video game!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Don't think it would be sourced by VAG - what made you think that it could be? I'm pretty sure it's fully Renault built and designed

[ttimbo]

Isn’t it made by Getrag?

[chuckovski]

Isn’t it made by Getrag?

I've heard that mentioned actually. Either way, not VAG

[ttimbo]

I've heard that mentioned actually. Either way, not VAG

I think you’ll find Getrag supplies some VAG gearboxes, as well as Renault, M-B, BMW among many others

[chuckovski]

I think you’ll find Getrag supplies some VAG gearboxes, as well as Renault, M-B, BMW among many others

Wasn't the 7 speed DSG abomination wholly VAG?

[ttimbo]

Wasn't the 7 speed DSG abomination wholly VAG?

There have been several VAG 7sp DSG transmissions — wet and dry clutch — I think they’ve all been Getrag products

[chuckovski]

There have been several VAG 7sp DSG transmissions — wet and dry clutch — I think they’ve all been Getrag products

Wow, and I've spent all these years cursing VAG, where I should have been cursing VAG and Getrag! All that wasted time

 

[ttimbo]

Wow, and I've spent all these years cursing VAG, where I should have been cursing VAG and Getrag! All that wasted time 

Given Porsche was the original developer of the DSG, VAG certainly made some, but my understanding is they licensed out the technology to Getrag and Borg-Warner, who (esp Getrag) have gone on to develop these gearboxes.

[No152]

15 minutes ago, ttimbo said:

Given Porsche was the original developer of the DSG, VAG certainly made some, but my understanding is they licensed out the technology to Getrag and Borg-Warner, who (esp Getrag) have gone on to develop these gearboxes.

Nearly.  It's all in here boys and girls...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-shift_gearbox

Seems Borg Warner developed up the commercial technology from the original Porsche design fro its race cars, then licensed it to VAG to build them (among others).  The 7 speed dry clutch abomination appears to have been the work of a different group including LuK Clutch System Gmbh who helped this poor excuse of a gearbox by making the dry clutch pack (the main cause of failure in that transmission) which them managed to find its way into lots of VAG products.

Clio runs a Getrag version of the DCT in its EDC, the same dry clutch unit as placed into the Focus and lots of others across a few brands.  I understand the Meg 4RS runs a wet clutch version (and the Alpine) but still a Getrag unit, so hopes are that as a wet clutch unit it will be more robust than the dry clutch unit which has had a patchy history in its various guises. 

[chuckovski]

Thanks for all the info guys - but it's certainly moot for me as I'm keen to get a manual for when I replace the Mégane.
As for the family car replacement, whenever that will be, I'll be trying to stick with torque converter auto.

[trixie]

Does anyone know if the Megane GT's is a wet clutch Getrag unit?

[No152]

2 hours ago, trixie said:

Does anyone know if the Megane GT's is a wet clutch Getrag unit?

Its all here from our friends at Wikipedia...

Getrag[edit]

Getrag has developed a range of DCT^[24] transaxles, including 7DCL750, a seven-speed transaxle for midengine longitudinal applications, capable of taking more than 750 N⋅m (553 lbf⋅ft).^[25] Getrag will provide its DCT in its first commercial applications, for the Dodge Journey and Volvo S40 and V50, from mid-2008.^[26] Getrag has developed the 6DCT250 dry clutch DCT for use in front wheel drive transverse applications. With use of electromechanical actuation, rather than electrohydraulic, the 6DCT250 transmission surpasses the conventional manual transmission in fuel consumption and CO₂ emission.^[27]

In the second quarter of 2008, Getrag had signed an agreement with Chrysler to supply its PowerShift DCTs for use in American markets.^[5] However, due to the global economic downturn, this was subsequently cancelled.^[5][28][29]

In 2006, Getrag was also working with Bosch to develop a DCT for use in hybrid vehicles.^[5][30]

In 2015, Getrag introduced a new seven-speed, wet-clutch DCT, the 7DCT300,^[31] with a maximum torque of 300 Nm. The first application was the Renault Espace with a 1.6 L, Turbo GDI engine.

Getrag dual-clutch transmissions are used in the BMW M3,^[32] BMW 335is, BMW Z4 (E89) sDrive35i, Dacia Duster EDC, ^[33] Ferrari California,^[34] Ferrari 458 Italia,^[35]LaFerrari, Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG,^[36] Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution X, Mitsubishi Lancer Ralliart, Ford Fiesta, Ford Focus, Renault Megane, Renault Scenic, smart fortwo, Volvo V40, Volvo V60 Volvo V70 vehicles.^[37]

 

^{The 7 speed unit in the Alpine is wet clutch unit, as is the Meg 4 RS that shares this driveline.  Interesting the dry clutch unit is electromechanically actuated rather than electrohydraulic as with the DSG in VWs etc.. Haven't found a reference yet to the Meg 4 GT.  If it's a 7 speed unit, will be wet clutch it seems.  If not, probably dry clutch like the Clio.}

[trixie]

Um so Wikipedia don't know....

[No152]

1 hour ago, trixie said:

Um so Wikipedia don't know....

Specs on GT day it’s a 7 speed EDC so would suggest wet clutch unit same as Meg RS gets

[Steveo16]

Don't think it would be sourced by VAG - what made you think that it could be? I'm pretty sure it's fully Renault built and designed

It was your Skoda comment[emoji41]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Steveo16]

Does anyone know if the Megane GT's is a wet clutch Getrag unit?

If you don’t smell burning clutch, when attempting a 3 point turn on a moderately steep slope, it’s wet clutch!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[chuckovski]

It was your Skoda comment[emoji41]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lol sorry ... I completely missed what you meant!

[JoelRS]

16 hours ago, No152 said:

Its all here from our friends at Wikipedia...

Getrag[edit]

Getrag has developed a range of DCT^[24] transaxles, including 7DCL750, a seven-speed transaxle for midengine longitudinal applications, capable of taking more than 750 N⋅m (553 lbf⋅ft).^[25] Getrag will provide its DCT in its first commercial applications, for the Dodge Journey and Volvo S40 and V50, from mid-2008.^[26] Getrag has developed the 6DCT250 dry clutch DCT for use in front wheel drive transverse applications. With use of electromechanical actuation, rather than electrohydraulic, the 6DCT250 transmission surpasses the conventional manual transmission in fuel consumption and CO₂ emission.^[27]

In the second quarter of 2008, Getrag had signed an agreement with Chrysler to supply its PowerShift DCTs for use in American markets.^[5] However, due to the global economic downturn, this was subsequently cancelled.^[5][28][29]

In 2006, Getrag was also working with Bosch to develop a DCT for use in hybrid vehicles.^[5][30]

In 2015, Getrag introduced a new seven-speed, wet-clutch DCT, the 7DCT300,^[31] with a maximum torque of 300 Nm. The first application was the Renault Espace with a 1.6 L, Turbo GDI engine.

Getrag dual-clutch transmissions are used in the BMW M3,^[32] BMW 335is, BMW Z4 (E89) sDrive35i, Dacia Duster EDC, ^[33] Ferrari California,^[34] Ferrari 458 Italia,^[35]LaFerrari, Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG,^[36] Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution X, Mitsubishi Lancer Ralliart, Ford Fiesta, Ford Focus, Renault Megane, Renault Scenic, smart fortwo, Volvo V40, Volvo V60 Volvo V70 vehicles.^[37]

 

^{The 7 speed unit in the Alpine is wet clutch unit, as is the Meg 4 RS that shares this driveline.  Interesting the dry clutch unit is electromechanically actuated rather than electrohydraulic as with the DSG in VWs etc.. Haven't found a reference yet to the Meg 4 GT.  If it's a 7 speed unit, will be wet clutch it seems.  If not, probably dry clutch like the Clio.}

Renault used the dry clutch unit in the Clio after all these known issues to keep the cost low. I read somewhere the Alpine has the DCT300 and the Megane has DCT450. The number on the models represent the max torque that the box can handle. 

[Docmattic]

2 hours ago, JoelRS said:

Renault used the dry clutch unit in the Clio after all these known issues to keep the cost low. I read somewhere the Alpine has the DCT300 and the Megane has DCT450. The number on the models represent the max torque that the box can handle. 

As the owner of a Ford Focus with DCT (wife's car), if it was me purchasing anything with the option for a DCT or a manual...I'd choose the manual. DCT is a fucking disaster waiting to happen. At least the driver is in control with a manual and if the transmission dies due to poor driving - its on you and not completely out of your control.

Edited 14, August 2018 by Docmattic

[No152]

3 hours ago, JoelRS said:

I read somewhere the Alpine has the DCT300 and the Megane has DCT450. The number on the models represent the max torque that the box can handle. 

You are very right, my error.  The DCT450 is a 6 speed unit, whereas the Alpine has the 7 speed unit.  Only the engine shared from the drivelines between the two.

New Meg RS is a 6 speed in EDC guise, so is likely to be the DCT450 Getrag wet clutch unit, and differs from the Alpine 7 speed unit.  Good news for future power upgrades in the Meg!!

[JoelRS]

5 minutes ago, No152 said:

You are very right, my error.  The DCT450 is a 6 speed unit, whereas the Alpine has the 7 speed unit.  Only the engine shared from the drivelines between the two.

New Meg RS is a 6 speed in EDC guise, so is likely to be the DCT450 Getrag wet clutch unit, and differs from the Alpine 7 speed unit.  Good news for future power upgrades in the Meg!!

Everyone here will be running 250kw/500nm remaps soon  

Cant wait for cheaper demo models. Not paying $55k for FWD meg4 when you can get AWD hot hatches for that money. 

[No152]

4 minutes ago, JoelRS said:

Not paying $55k for FWD meg4 when you can get AWD hot hatches for that money. 

Yes lots of discussion on that point in this thread!  RS Megs are traditionally great value used propositions (sadly for everyone except the used car buyer), but I agree there will be a big market for power increases, and it looks like the EDC might even be up for the task.  That will result in some wicked French shopping trolleys running about in the (hopefully) near future...

And a positive.  For those waiting to get out of warranty before doing the big power up, only a three year wait for that... 😎

[chuckovski]

As the owner of a Ford Focus with DCT (wife's car), if it was me purchasing anything with the option for a DCT or a manual...I'd choose the manual. DCT is a f**king disaster waiting to happen. At least the driver is in control with a manual and if the transmission dies due to poor driving - its on you and not completely out of your control.

I'd agree, but my Clio has been good. Problem is it seems to be luck of the draw.

[cloudy]

I hope they have done a far better job implementing the 6DCT450 in the Meg 4 than they did in the Mondeo. It's a sublime gearbox once it gets going, but whatever Ford did with the transmission mapping at low speed is just criminal... I've lost at least one interested buyer because of it.

[JoelRS]

25 minutes ago, cloudy said:

I hope they have done a far better job implementing the 6DCT450 in the Meg 4 than they did in the Mondeo. It's a sublime gearbox once it gets going, but whatever Ford did with the transmission mapping at low speed is just criminal... I've lost at least one interested buyer because of it.

Same issue with the DCT250 in the Focus (same box as Clio4RS), Ford just completely effed the software in it.

[Docmattic]

53 minutes ago, chuckovski said:

3 hours ago, Docmattic said:

As the owner of a Ford Focus with DCT (wife's car), if it was me purchasing anything with the option for a DCT or a manual...I'd choose the manual. DCT is a f**king disaster waiting to happen. At least the driver is in control with a manual and if the transmission dies due to poor driving - its on you and not completely out of your control.

I'd agree, but my Clio has been good. Problem is it seems to be luck of the draw.

yeah, and if they are putting this tech in so many new vehicles it really shouldn't feel like that. Companies need to do a much better job at ensuring the tech works well before mass producing it. And then, if they know one way is more susceptible to problems (dry clutch for example) then don't use it to save a few bucks. I'm sure people paying for a car would prefer to pay an extra $500 (or whatever it is) on the total cost of the car for the better tech, to ensure their transmission doesn't fail. I wouldn't mind if they passed the difference on at cost......or better yet, just use a transmission that is good and reliable. New tech isn't always better...proven reliability is, especially if its in an econobox. End rant haha

 

 

 

 

[JoelRS]

2 hours ago, chuckovski said:

4 hours ago, Docmattic said:

As the owner of a Ford Focus with DCT (wife's car), if it was me purchasing anything with the option for a DCT or a manual...I'd choose the manual. DCT is a f**king disaster waiting to happen. At least the driver is in control with a manual and if the transmission dies due to poor driving - its on you and not completely out of your control.

I'd agree, but my Clio has been good. Problem is it seems to be luck of the draw.

The DCT in my Clio didnt fail either (or i sold it before that happened) but it seemed to have a very confused brain.

 

 

[chuckovski]

yeah, and if they are putting this tech in so many new vehicles it really shouldn't feel like that. Companies need to do a much better job at ensuring the tech works well before mass producing it. And then, if they know one way is more susceptible to problems (dry clutch for example) then don't use it to save a few bucks. I'm sure people paying for a car would prefer to pay an extra $500 (or whatever it is) on the total cost of the car for the better tech, to ensure their transmission doesn't fail. I wouldn't mind if they passed the difference on at cost......or better yet, just use a transmission that is good and reliable. New tech isn't always better...proven reliability is, especially if its in an econobox. End rant haha
 
 
 
 

I fear there will be no torque converter autos when I replace our family car. Old tech that works, but harder to come by!

[ttimbo]

I fear there will be no torque converter autos when I replace our family car. Old tech that works, but harder to come by!

ZF and Aisin are doing some pretty good things with TC autos — I wouldn’t worry too much

[chuckovski]

ZF and Aisin are doing some pretty good things with TC autos — I wouldn’t worry too much

Fingers crossed. It's the Aisin 6 speed I have in the Enterprise, and it is awesome.

[Steveo16]

I fear there will be no torque converter autos when I replace our family car. Old tech that works, but harder to come by!

If ( not you ) but someone really has to have a paddle shift auto, there’s only one place to look. I’ve driven one, fabulous, looks stunning & back in the uk, to can pick up a 3 year old one with about 8000 miles on the clock for about 27,000 gbp, new, around 110.000gbp! Now what does a torque converter auto DB9 go for over here? I kid you not!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HamishW96]

On 14/08/2018 at 1:31 PM, cloudy said:

I hope they have done a far better job implementing the 6DCT450 in the Meg 4 than they did in the Mondeo. It's a sublime gearbox once it gets going, but whatever Ford did with the transmission mapping at low speed is just criminal... I've lost at least one interested buyer because of it.

My girlfriend bought a brand new 2014 fiesta with the powershift transmission, as her first car. That thing was deadly. Needless to say it got traded in for a Mazda 2 the next year due to the nervousness in roundabouts and traffic. Woulda lead to a smash. Ford wanted nothing to do with it and thought a simple reflash would fix it. Only had 12000km on it too. 

 

[Steveo16]

yeah, and if they are putting this tech in so many new vehicles it really shouldn't feel like that. Companies need to do a much better job at ensuring the tech works well before mass producing it. And then, if they know one way is more susceptible to problems (dry clutch for example) then don't use it to save a few bucks. I'm sure people paying for a car would prefer to pay an extra $500 (or whatever it is) on the total cost of the car for the better tech, to ensure their transmission doesn't fail. I wouldn't mind if they passed the difference on at cost......or better yet, just use a transmission that is good and reliable. New tech isn't always better...proven reliability is, especially if its in an econobox. End rant haha
 
 
 
 

I totally agree, with everything you said. If you have to have a paddle shift, what’s wrong with a true, torque converter, non cvt auto?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk