Jump to content

Newbie: 182 cup or 197?


Opposite_Lock
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hey guys

 

Have been browsing/posting the forums for quite a while now but havent formally introduced myself. Im Sam, 23 year old engineering student living in brisbane. Have been a lifelong car nut but hadnt really expirienced renaults until i got to drive a mates 182 sport for few weeks while he was away. From there i was hooked! Have driven quite a few late model hot hatches from the gti to mps despite the obvious differences, as a drivers car the 182 felt so free spirited i loved it.

 

So now im going from a ralliart colt to possibly a 182 cup or stretch the budget a little further and go a lower kilometre later year 197. Ive been offered one for 21,000 with 35k on the clock which i found a pretty good price. Its seems from what ive researched that the 197 was something of a maturity change for the clio, becoming more refined overall, generally at the expense of driver excitement? I deally id love a back to back drive of the 2 but the 197 does look like the more sensible choice.

 

Anyhow thanks for your time, great to be here and hope to get out on a cruise when I get a renault of some sort!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthre ... r-clio-182

 

You have it nailed. The 197 is a bigger car, with essentially the same engine. It is however less of a regular run-of-the-mill hatchback. It's got serious brakes, Recaro's, 17" wheels with wide rubber, and a proper seating position. It's probably not as brisk in straightline terms, but in the real world it's not far off. And on a mountain run it'd have the measure of a 182 imo, if only because of the confidence a larger more seriously tyred car gives.

 

The 182 is the last of the old-school big engined, lightweight hot-hatches. It's very similar in attitude to my old 205 GTI (which I miss BADLY atm). I have never driven a 197, but I get the sense from others who have, that it is definitely a less exciting car.

 

21000 for a 35k 197 is tempting. I know the car you're referring to (a quick carsales), and it's missing the Recaro's.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not that I'm aware of, but correct me if I'm wrong. I think the only options available throughout the 197's sales period in Australia were just xenons and the glass roof, with the Cup suspension pack being offered later on. Not that many took up the xenons and as far as anyone can tell nobody ordered a 197 with the Cup suspension. You will find a few with the glass roof pack however - I've seen 2 personally, and I don't mind it at all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd assume the cup suspension may be purchased afterwards.

I drove 197 and a 182, and IMO i'd have regrets getting the 197. Would i prefer a 182cup... depends on what your priorities are. The 197 will still handle very very well compared to a lot of aother cars in the market.

I didn't push it as hard as i could, but still enjoyed the taste. Love the width, nice interior, rev it well and you're still in fun land.

35000kms for $21000... i'm liking that. Yes would prefer an r27, yes for purely spirited driving i'd go the 182cup, or a 172 tuned does the trick too. BUT the 197 is far from a crap car. Nothing to say you can't play and mod the thing down the track.

 

WOLF

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I drove one of the first 197's in Sydney when I still had my 182 Cup, and posted a thread about it:

 

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=9605

 

Looking back now, if I were back in the market for a Clio I think I'd go for the 197 over the 182 (forgetting the age difference). I left Renault for a BMW 130i because great as the Clio was, I felt like I wanted something with a marked power increase, but I'm not really a 'turbo guy'. The extra power was definitely appreciated, and I'd like to own more powerful cars still.

 

But the difference in the shove in the back between a 182 and 197 isn't huge, and I think on a fun twisty road the superior handling of the 197 would be a marked advantage. You buy a Clio for the handling, and the fact that it's reasonably quick is a nice bonus.

 

Second hand 197's are amazing value, and unlike Clio II, where the 182 looked nicer than the earlier car, I think the 197 beats the 200 for looks by a long shot.

 

R27 in white for me please.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can honestly tell you the 197 handles incredibly. Last week week I was driving through a tight twisty mountain range during the middle of the day where it is very low on traffic, following behind me was a very like minded SSv ute driver looking for fun. I had him completely licked. Every hairpin the tyres were squealing with the backend stepping out slightly unless the corner was entered completely incorrectly where the car would understeer before being corrected.

 

It was huge amounts of fun and easily the fastest I have ever taken a hairpin mountain pass road (Not that I condone speeding, it just somehow happens occasionally :P) I was stopping for petrol in the town next to the road I had just enjoyed to have the SSv ute pull behind me, typical aussie bloke of about 40 couldnt believe this cute little car had thrashed him around the twisty bits "F***ing quick for a chicks car"

 

Go, buy the newer car you wont regret it. I picked up mine for $28k with 8 thousand on the clock. It makes me smile every time I see it, every time I drive it and every time that rev needle pushes past 5 thousand RPM (The noise in a tunnel is simply out of this world!)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

agree with a lot of the comment posted here so far... I think the Clio III platform is better to punt on a country road or track, its brakes and handling just has that edge over the stock 182 in giving the driver even more confidence.

 

But for fun factor and driving day to day the 182 is better, that low down torque/weight compared to the 197 means it's the car for me, it's the last of the truly great lightweight hot hatchs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd personally go for the 197.

 

A litle of the rawness is lost, but it's made up with a car that has resolved some of the big problems with the 172/182 (the driving position being the biggest fix... horrendous doesn't even begin to describe how bad the 172/182 is).

 

Not to mention the age of 172/182's are starting to cause issues regarding maintenance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

After getting back in the 182 after 3 weeks of driving Jen's 225, I think I might have to do the seat-lowering mod too. And I'm a short-a*** LOL so that's saying something!!

 

The driving position does feel weird now after the Megane stint, but 8 years driving various Clio II's hasn't put me off them. You forget how heavy all the controls are too. The Clio III and Megane II are just so civilised in comparison!

 

But as others have said, that rawness is a little diluted in the later models.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For me (I'm 5'11" and 86kg, so hardly a tall/wide person), the seats are too small in terms of back height, they are positioned too high (which can be alleviated with the lowering mod), the steering wheel is far too raked and doesn't have enough reach for my arms (ie. it's like driving a bus), and the pedals are in a position more suited to an upright seating position with the accelerator pedal a little too far in for my liking (they should all line up in the neutral position IMO).

 

So yeah, pretty flawed... particularly when I compare it to cars with great driving positions like the Mx5.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The go pedal should be lower than the brake at neutral. That's where you need it to heel and toe nicely.
No, no it isn't. Look at any race car or exotic sports car with a manual transmission... ALL have all three pedals sharing the same neutral position (with the exception of dual clutch cars, which often have a typical automatic pedal layout).

 

Having the pedals out of line is cumbersome and inhibits heel and toe control.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought id be the only one that thinks the 197 is a cracking drive. I think its a bit misunderstood (for lack of a better word), and in time people will see its as much of a classic as the rest of the Clio Sport range that are getting the credit they deserve.

 

 

I agree mate. The 197 is certainly a little underestimated, and misunderstood.

 

cheers

RAMpage

Blue 197

Blue182CUP

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The go pedal should be lower than the brake at neutral. That's where you need it to heel and toe nicely.

 

Enroll in a yoga class :P

 

 

 

 

Also something else that was only touched on, is that yes, this is french and after a certain amount of years these cars (unless, taken care of like a newborn) do start to have problems with them, whether it's wear and tear parts or more expensive replacements.

 

Based on that alone, I would recommend the 197.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good luck with your decision O_L !

 

If you can stretch to a 197 I'd be doing that, especially if you plan to keep the car for more than a few years 8)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A big thankyou to everyone for your informative words, i think the decision is now becoming clearer

 

Indeed, the driving position is possibly the deal breaker for the 182. When i first got in the 182 it was impossible for me to find that sweet spot position as the back support is either too reclined or too upright, and being 6'2 with an arched back because im lankey just left me in an awkward position that would become irritating for daily use. Its a shame because i think itll be harder to find that frenetic attitude thats in the 182 in a 197 but maybe a few small mods should get it cooking. Uprated springs, intake and rstuner perhaps?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In some ways the 197 is better, it's a more modern car and more planted with better brakes than the 182. Coming from a 182, I would miss the low down torque though...

Here's a discussion on making the Clio II's seating ergonomics better if it helps to swap you back to a 182 again

http://www.ozrenaultsport.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11137&p=172490

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The go pedal should be lower than the brake at neutral. That's where you need it to heel and toe nicely.
No, no it isn't. Look at any race car or exotic sports car with a manual transmission... ALL have all three pedals sharing the same neutral position (with the exception of dual clutch cars, which often have a typical automatic pedal layout).

 

Having the pedals out of line is cumbersome and inhibits heel and toe control.

 

Gotta bed this to rest, its a subjective thing.. its like some pro racing drivers like to sit up close to the steering wheel and others far back. If the Clio's acccelerator is too low compared to the brake pedal you can raise this by a cm or two by purchasing clip on pedal kits from someone like autojoy or motorquipe. -OR-adjust the pedals somehowI had a look yesterday, is there a way to adjust the Clio's pedal position?

 

I personally have got used to the Clio's pedal position, initially it was awkward coming from cars that the pedals were level. From memory, the Golf Gti manual has the same pedal heights differences as the Clio anyone confirm this? so all euro hatches are probably designed like this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The thing that got me addicted to the 182 was the depth of chassis when you got to learn the car. You'll only get to appreciate this after owning the car for a long time. If you want reliability and something you can drive fast straight up get the 197.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The thing that got me addicted to the 182 was the depth of chassis when you got to learn the car. You'll only get to appreciate this after owning the car for a long time. If you want reliability and something you can drive fast straight up get the 197.

 

Right on, brother! :headbang:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...