PaulD Posted 12, May 2005 Report Share Posted 12, May 2005 Hi All, We now have a new host to take our website to better things.. Steps involved.. 1. Transfer DNS to new host. The site may be down for 6-24hours for this to update. Sorry for the inconvenience.. 2. Site will look the same (short term). As a part of the hosting package, we will have a new home page, which we can customise with links, galleries, FAQ's etc.. I will post some ideas, and invite everyones feedback.. 3. New page will be using same graphics as cards we all agreed on (well mostly ). This should look very clean. Again, will post links to a dummy screen shot for comments. Check out the link of our fantastic host www.exstatic.net for design and hosting capability.. 4. Donations for hosting (will set me back $15 per month) can be made at any drive day, through nominated individuals in each state, then straight to my swiss bank account Donations are in good will, and will be well recieved 5. Ongoing changes/updates can be done at request (to any of the admin panel), including suitable sponsorship/advertising. My idea is for small discounts on a reccomended basis (ie mechanics who want there name mentioned in a good way) may offer 5% discount or similar for mentioning the site name. Paul Ren Mech?? 6. Ideas? Thanks for all your continued support. I never imagined we would have 200+ users.. Lets make this a free info resource thats as good as it gets. Cheers, PaulD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ringo Posted 12, May 2005 Report Share Posted 12, May 2005 has anyone asked renault dealerships etc. about helping out. Am more than happy to throw money your way pauly... this is a great forum and good source of light entertainment (thanks karl!!) i'll put a tenna down on the 22nd if you are there... and i'd invite others to do the same, this should be run by all the people that use it, not just pauly! ringo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vukie Posted 12, May 2005 Report Share Posted 12, May 2005 Sweet, Ill definantly contribute on this one too! Ideas? How about donating members get extra benefits that normal users cant see like, access if some body does a 'how too' take your dash apart it only available to contributing members, avatars only allowed for contributing members... ect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackie Posted 12, May 2005 Report Share Posted 12, May 2005 no problem for the contribution support Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulD Posted 12, May 2005 Author Report Share Posted 12, May 2005 Aww shucks.. Thanks guys.. My only hesitation with offering privelages for members, is the paperwork and procedures we would need to have this.. ie, treasurer to list who has paid, and how we manage the privelages.. Im here only when i have the time. If anyone has done this before, and thinks it is easy, then i am all ears.. But with donations of good will, well we dont have to track it, and it stays very simple.. Good for my head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSC172 Posted 12, May 2005 Report Share Posted 12, May 2005 Yeah I'll throw in some money when the need arises Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick Posted 13, May 2005 Report Share Posted 13, May 2005 Just say the word Paulie and i'll wire you the first $10000000 to the swiss bank acct. Cheers Mick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbie M Posted 13, May 2005 Report Share Posted 13, May 2005 Am also happy to throw some folding stuff your way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmacleod Posted 16, May 2005 Report Share Posted 16, May 2005 4. Donations for hosting (will set me back $15 per month) can be made at any drive day, through nominated individuals in each state, then straight to my swiss bank account Donations are in good will, and will be well recieved Bite me for $50 next time you see me, that should cover me for a while. Cheers, Paul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storms_of_fate Posted 16, May 2005 Report Share Posted 16, May 2005 Have we seriously looked at the benifits and possibilities of teaming up with the RCCA? As far as i can see, the RCCA has already got a structure setup that involves a treasureer, planning and greater influnce over servicces and products that we may be intersted in. I'm definatly not saying that a bit of donation is bad. But I think to be fair for everyone that uses this, and for benifits that we can all enjoy it might be wise to look into this. Just think of the possibilities of belonging to a much larger group that has its hands in a lot of things already... Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ringo Posted 16, May 2005 Report Share Posted 16, May 2005 Have we seriously looked at the benifits and possibilities of teaming up with the RCCA? As far as i can see, the RCCA has already got a structure setup that involves a treasureer, planning and greater influnce over servicces and products that we may be intersted in. I'm definatly not saying that a bit of donation is bad. But I think to be fair for everyone that uses this, and for benifits that we can all enjoy it might be wise to look into this. Just think of the possibilities of belonging to a much larger group that has its hands in a lot of things already... Just a thought. if we dont have to be a member of the RCAA to use the forum then i'm all for it. They are probably well set up for it... might be an idea? ringo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulD Posted 16, May 2005 Author Report Share Posted 16, May 2005 FYI, the administrators have been in a heated discussion about the relative benefits of being affiliated with the RCCA. From our discussion, it seems we either stay a completely different entity to RCCA, (and just stay close with them for drive days, track days etc), or we become a wing of the RCCA, and that means membership. I am sure there would be many unhappy campers here if we 'made' everyone become a legal member of a car club to use the benefits of this forum. I believe we would need to push this (RCCA memberships) to get away with using their treasurer and admin facilities etc.. I personally believe that with the odd donation, there will be more than enough to make this site go around. On this subject, i am keen to appear transparent, so will be scanning and posting links to my swiss bank account.. oh, thats after i have used it to pay off my clio.. hehe.. If anyone has experience in operating a 'kitty' in the simplest way (we dont need 500 meetings to nominate etc..) then please speak up.. I feel a bit uneasy about taking everyones hard earned... Well, just a bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderbird2 Posted 16, May 2005 Report Share Posted 16, May 2005 Since I have been hanging with the Clio crowd for a couple of years now, and since I have started a club of my own, permit me to wade into this debate a moment. I personally believe that with the odd donation, there will be more than enough to make this site go around. With all due respect Paul, this is not a very wise or long term view. What happen's if your circumstances change tomorrow, and you are no longer willing or able to look after the funds and the forum? It's all well and good to have a social group of people who like a certain car, but as soon as you start talking about cruises, CAMS related events and the like, administration becomes a necessary evil. You've got to have some form of accountability, delegation and the like. The larger the group becomes, the more necessary the beauracy becomes. But this doesn't mean you have to have 500 meetings... things can still be as casual as you like, however people will know their place, what needs to be done. AND you will have things like insurance to cover you. The larger the group becomes, and the more serious you become about the events you would like to run, then the more important things like insurance become as well. Really, I guess you need to decide if you want to move into becoming a more involved club, or wether you would like to remain as more of a social group. From what i have seen, you guys seem to be moving towards the former... RCCA affiliation is the best way forward for the Renault Sport crowd due to a number of factors: 1. The current drivers/owners in this forum ARE the future members and admnistrators of the RCCA. Where else are the RCCA members going to come from? 2. You cannot talk about having CAMS affiliated events with Renault support without being involved with the RCCA. To the naysayers, please consider the following: 1. There's no reason why OZRS cannot retain it's current identity as the young hip happening and sporty drivers of the Renault fraternity 2. There's no reason why the forums cannot remain free for all to use 3. There's no reason why events or membership need to be compulsory for all. My 2 francs, Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storms_of_fate Posted 17, May 2005 Report Share Posted 17, May 2005 I totally agree, and Matt, get with the times will you? Its Euros now! RCCA is more than willing to take us in, and let us run with our own thing. They see it as moving forward, we drive the current generation of Renault cars, and we are essentailly the tomorrow of the RCCA if you want to look at it this way. They have made this a clear point from day one, some of us maybe misinterpreting their intensions and fear that we will be getting into something we will regret. We won't. These guys there are keen to mix it up with the new members and the new cars, if we are itnrested we have a lot of guys there that are essentially excylopedias on old Renaults and cars in general. I think we can make a great organisation, on the one hand we are a bunch of young teenagers that has lots of ideas and can (except matt) get with the time, on the other hand we have -20 experience while the guys that's already in RCCA do, but needs fashion advice. As a club we haven't even got stickers, or merchendise and we never will because we don't have a structure. It was a lot of hardwork to get teh cards pritned, and the initial batch of stickers... but no one except the dedicated few got them, and certainly no new member has bougth them, despite the fact more than a few threads has been since posted on stickers and the like. Everyone should turn up to at least one RCCA meeting and have a look, think about what we can offer them rather than them shutting us down, and how together we can be so much more than just a loose community Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ringo Posted 17, May 2005 Report Share Posted 17, May 2005 If we join the RCAA will I still be able to come along? Will there be fees associated with a casual cruise ? ringo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Posted 17, May 2005 Report Share Posted 17, May 2005 As you may/may not be aware, i'm the PR guy for the RCCA, so if anyone wants to know about the RCCA, what it does & where its heading & how you can be part etc etc then you can PM me or you're of course more than welcome to come along to any meeting, held first monday of each month @ Veterans car club hall (opposite Bentley) in Five Dock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulD Posted 17, May 2005 Author Report Share Posted 17, May 2005 So does the RCCA exist in all states? Thats part of the fundamental problem.. While we may have the majority of users in Sydney, we are spread far and wide, and having meetings etc (even if it is with RCCA) becomes a challenge. I will be honest, I dont have any experience with RCCA, but i was a member of RCCV (Renault Club Vic i think it was called) and 2 meetings was about all i could handle. I believe their idea of a social event and ours is quite different (shopping day for wives vs. blat through country roads).. The RCCA may well be different from RCCV, but my views are biased in that respect. To actually get my clio on the track, I had to go along with the Ford Four club of Vic, get the CAMS licence etc, and they were very supportive of a different car.. Quite differnt to my experience of 50+yo R12 lovers. What I essentially dont want us to lose is our individuality as Renaultsport enthusiasts (and a few hangers onerers) If this is possible with the RCCA (without us requireing membership or being a part of their website etc), then i am keen to know more. But i have no interest into us purely being a venture for the RCCA to get in some young blood and membership. My 0.02 Euros Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosey Posted 17, May 2005 Report Share Posted 17, May 2005 Let's be clear on something - nobody here is discouraging anyone from joining and participating in RCCA activities. Point being, how many of us here are actually members of such a club? How many of us are interested in getting involved in a car club and what comes with it - whether that be RCCA or an OzRenaultsport Club of sorts? I reckon that it's only a few. We can't even get more than half a dozen people along to our meetups in Sydney. Why? Well lots of reasons I reckon. Some of us just aren't interested. That's fine. Some of us don't have the time. No prob with that either. At the end of the day, what are we trying to achieve from this forum? Cyber chat, an exchange of ideas? Tech talk? I guess that the thing stopping me wanting to move forward to a "club" status (and all that this entails logistically and legally) is that I haven't seen the push from the members here to say "Hey, we want 30 car cruises, we want track days, we want tech days, etc, etc". I personally would really enjoy a lot of these types of activities but people here seem happy enough to log on and exchange views and ideas. And that's about it. I have no problem with this. And hey, car clubs are great. I've been involved in them both here and in the UK. But they're not for everyone. The Aussiefrogs forum exists quite happily for the benefit of its members without needing any affiliation with any club, CAMS, or otherwise. Nobody stops the members there organising to catch up socially, do track days, etc. If the latter requires a CAMS licence, well the car clubs are there to provide that facility. So why change this forum to cater to a minority (and I'm part of the minority, I believe) who can access things like motorsport through other avenues? The above model is what I look at when I (personally) look to the future for OzRS. It may not be perfect, and it may not suit everyone, but from what I've seen over the past year, I think that it probably suits the majority here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSC172 Posted 17, May 2005 Report Share Posted 17, May 2005 I agree with you Moosey. I'm all for being in a car club etc, but am just as happy to post thoughts, ideas and opinions online as well. Sure, I may not participate in every cruise/drive day/ tech day/track day etc, but that doesn't mean I dont want to be there. At the moment I'm fine the way the site is being run and the members we have on here. But whichever way the site goes I'll still stick by and support it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storms_of_fate Posted 17, May 2005 Report Share Posted 17, May 2005 I think there's still this fear of this forum being absorbed. A few things we have said before, and I'll rephrase those now and that's it. -This forum can exist together with RCCA, AF, Dutsun club, SAU or what ever anyone is itnersted in. -No one has ever said danything about paying a membership to use this forum. In fact with the RCCA, the hosting of the site and things like that can be taken care of with out "donations" that I see as totally not fair to anyone and potentially a seed for future arguments." Oh i donated, you ahven't", "but I donated more", "I'm not gonna donate because site admin makes a profit out of the money" etc etc. -No one is forcing anyone into motorsport. The RCCA simply provides a gate way for the ones who wants to, and I am sure there are plenty. Not every bodies that yaks on and on about fake carbon fibre things are interested in modding themselves as a driver, and there for can not be labeled "most people" -As far as I can see the RCCA members can teach most of us, if not all a thing or about about how to steer a car. they are not old farts who sits there and think about Daisy, which they bought when they were young. These gusy are out there, in motorsports, winning motorsports participated by all makes of cars. -The RCCA wants us to take the whole Renault thing further, what better than have a bunch of current geneartion owners taking that cahrge? The members of the RCCA are not always old, they were young once, our age. So there. For people who just wants to come here and yak, fine. And you don't have to pay a cent. For those who really wants to to participate in somthing big, there's also the option to do so, impossible in current setup. Simply put, we don't have the licenses needed to hold events, we don't have access to information, products and services. 10 guys owning a nd drive the same car means nothing, no one is goign to give you sh*t for it. 10 guys owning the same car, drives them and belongs to a big recognised organisation is going to get lots of things happening. Lastly, turn up to a meeting, talk to them. Before making assumptions. The majority may not always be correct, minorities shouldn't be put into the back drop and leave them there either. Especially when majority andminority has not been established. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ringo Posted 17, May 2005 Report Share Posted 17, May 2005 i'm all for joining the RCAA, they have the people in place to do what we went... ONLY IF we can still be independent of them. We should be able to have cruises etc. just like we have been having. I think the RCAA should also have a voice on this forum, after all... aren't we all about the same thing. Love of Renault. If the RCAA doesn't have an office in other states, is that really a problem? Will it stop the people in Melbourne having a drive day (whenever they get around to it!).. unlikely. They will, however be albe to help with a formal structure, and if they want to help, why not take it! I do not want to loose this tho. I must admit I enjoy the informal banter that we have, but at the end of the day if they can help make the cars faster, handle better and drive better who are we to say they can't come in! ringo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulD Posted 17, May 2005 Author Report Share Posted 17, May 2005 A few more points for consideration: - As soon as we may be affiliated with a club, then on and organised event, chances are your personal motor vehicle insurance will be null and void.. (may check to look at the fine print) - Any accident you have (touch wood), if linked to an orgainsed event may be worth nothing, and the organisers may be liable for being sued should anything really serious occur to us, or anyone else.. We dont need to have any structure or be affiliated with ANYONE to participate in motorsport events.. I dont understand why everyone thinks we need to have all the red tape of being a club to be able to participate in such events.. If you want to do soemthing with the RCCA, why not just join the RCCA? Is there really any difference?? For the record, im not scared about the RCCA or being a full blown club.. Many of us are at the limit already with respect to use of time etc.. we all are here for different reasons.. I dont want to tar everyone with the same brush.. I just know i dont feel the same way about this to some of you.. So why should we change everything for some more vocal members that can already have everything they need at the RCCA? I would really like to know out of the 220something users we have (maybe 50-100 current users) would actually use this facility, and would actually really care.. I think I will start a poll! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storms_of_fate Posted 17, May 2005 Report Share Posted 17, May 2005 ummm insurance would be void for the period during a motorsport event wether you go through a club or fork out your own har dearned money to participate. You can still be sued for accidents weather you are on road or track or someone's backyard, your arguement is weak. actually it has no relevence. There is no diference, so I dont' see why that would be a disavantage in joining forces, in an ALLIANCE with the RCCA. Yes anyone can participate in anything, but there will be a lot of money involved. The RCCA as middle can substentailly reduce some of these costs... how much is it to hire a track for a day for 10 guys? What if you ahve a recognised club that has connectiosn to do the same?? Savings for everyone all round. Start a Poll is fine with me, but how many people actaully know anything about teh RCCA? no one beyond Nate, Dom, Matt and Myself really... if I have missed anyone I am terribly sorry. But not many! So how is peple going to knw what to vote for when they have no idea aboit the RCCA? You are still missing the point, and several people ahve voiced that point right here already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosey Posted 17, May 2005 Report Share Posted 17, May 2005 You are still missing the point, and several people have voiced that point right here already. The point is that there are three or four people here who want things to change and three or four who aren't convinced that its necessary. The other 90% of regulars here are happy with the current setup up, otherwise I suggest that they'd be posting on this thread. Guys, I propose that we close the discussion here - unless there is anyone else out there who hasn't added their thoughts on this topic. If we have a large response from previously non-committal posters then I think it should be addressed. No input for change means no change in my mind :arrow: ie. the majority are happy with the status quo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmorr Posted 17, May 2005 Report Share Posted 17, May 2005 my 2cents the only thing that i think should be changed is to add things like member gallerys, write ups etc... either way ill be happy with whatever happens except im not too keen on joining up with RCCA and charging people fees to go to meets etc... if money is needed to make this a larger (better) site then im sure many of us will donate... keep it simple i say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderbird2 Posted 17, May 2005 Report Share Posted 17, May 2005 What we've got here, is, failure, to communicate! Anthony: firstly, i'm suprised that you would like to shut the discussion down. Let it ride, perhaps in another thread if necessary. Everyone seems to be scared of memberships for this or that, the RCCA is gonna this and that. It's what you all want to make of it. Just don't cast the idea aside: explore! People can opt in or not. It doesn't mean if your not a member of RCCA that you can't go on this cruise or that cruise. Cruises are still cruises. The forum is still the forum. Your car will not change colour overnight. You just open your selves up to more possibilites simply by saying: what's this RCCA all about then? We have a similar situation in my club, except we get things done. Organisations are good for that. Still, you have to want to get things done, and i think Anthony's most important point is: do we have a select few who want to have events, while the rest just want to chat on a forum? I'd wager that most of us here are drivers, but this could be wrong. Still, i believe - if you build it, they will come. That's what we are experiencing in our club. And the better we are making it, the more people want to be a part of it. It becomes more than the sum of it's parts. It's not just a car club, it's identity - i drive such and such a car, i'm in this club, we love this car. Or whatever floats your boat! Our membership fee entitles you to a member pack with cool goodies. The small margin we make on this covers our web hosting costs. Everyones happy. We do not charge for cruises or the like. But we have the ability, as club funds increase, to book track days, skid pans, have an annual dinner etc etc. We have an increasing range of merchandise, branded bits for the cars, etc. We are working towards affiliating with Lexus Australia. We have one affiliate workshop with more on the way, so our members can get parts and service cheaper, and still get the service quality they demand. We have a preferred body shop for repairs which is Lexus approved. They give our members discounts, and we get cheap Meguiars products through them. We'll be holding a Meguiars car wash day there. And so on. These are the things you can accomplish as a club - the thing with the RCCA is that you guys already have the club admin to accomplish it. The RCCA, for example, Furthermore, in reference to the insurance issue raised above: CAMS affiliated clubs have their events covered by CAMS insurance. See the CAMS website for more info. Yes, this includes public road cruises. If the club organises such an event, then your covered. If some of the club wanna go for a blast down their favourite road on Thursday night, then this is not a club affiliated event, it's just a bunch of guys sharing the same road at one time. No different to now. I think Anthony's hit the point home - do people want the above, or do they want just an internet forum? That's what needs to be decided really. It's not for me to say really, i don't even drive a French car anymore! And i have meddled enough in OZRS affairs i think. Hence, i will say nothing more on the matter! See (some of) you on Sunday! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmorr Posted 17, May 2005 Report Share Posted 17, May 2005 ok after reading that.... i wanna do the whole RCCA thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storms_of_fate Posted 17, May 2005 Report Share Posted 17, May 2005 ok after reading that.... i wanna do the whole RCCA thing maybe its just that I speak engrish badly. I'm glad you understand where we are coming from, and that no one is trying or wanting to take away anything from what we have here right now. We only want to add to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulD Posted 17, May 2005 Author Report Share Posted 17, May 2005 Matt, I must say.. well written post. Its clearer to see some of the advantages in your views in this style of post than some of the others. Thanks for taking the time to voice your ideas without ranting. Furthermore, I agree (I think this maybe the only point which we can all agree on) that we need to collectively establish if the users really want these features, or really only want to share some knowledge with Renaultsport cyber enthusiasts.. There seems to be a difference (from my limited knowledge) in the take up percentage of total users in your club who participate in cruises etc. It seems for all our banter here, we rarely have mor than 10 or so in any one spot. Maybe we want different things? I have started a poll to get an idea of what we want. Sure, it may not be perfect, but i think it is a start to find out why people are here... PaulD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Posted 17, May 2005 Report Share Posted 17, May 2005 People seemed to be very focused on what they want/need now, has anyone thought of the future & what is possible! There's a HUGE amount of things no one appears to want, but its more than likely because they've never seen or experienced them, or dont have the foresight to think they can happen. The other thing people are overlooking is if you put gallery's, guides etc, the site & bandwidth requirements will go through the roof, as will the cost of running it. It is not feasible to try to incur/distribute a few hundo a year of costs with a "i'll chip in" style of payment. I've already had talks with some dealers & arranged for RCCA members to get discounted servicing & trade prices on genuine parts... I should have all dealers canvassed by end of next week & a few other automotive product/suppliers done. There's also RCCA members that are clothing manufacturers, so we've got some custom RCCA shirts with embroidery etc on mind... which of course can be done VERY cheap! also in orders as small as .... 1! So how bad is that $48 a year membership fee looking? LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ringo Posted 18, May 2005 Report Share Posted 18, May 2005 There's also RCCA members that are clothing manufacturers, so we've got some custom RCCA shirts with embroidery etc on mind... which of course can be done VERY cheap! also in orders as small as .... 1!So how bad is that $48 a year membership fee looking? LOL Nate, agree with you... HOWEVER... the $50 membership fee is not gonna work for me. I am already forking out $70 for MX-5 membership etc. however would love to jump in on the t-shirt / jacket idea. Will that option be open to people who aren't RCCA members. Once we start getting membership fees, will that mean that the board will be closed to all non-RCCA members? sorry, i'm sure you have already answered that but i'm blonde and an MX-5 driver, so it goes in one ear and out the other (or in one eye and out the other!) cheers ringo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Posted 18, May 2005 Report Share Posted 18, May 2005 Nate, agree with you... HOWEVER... the $50 membership fee is not gonna work for me. I am already forking out $70 for MX-5 membership etc. however would love to jump in on the t-shirt / jacket idea. Will that option be open to people who aren't RCCA members. Once we start getting membership fees, will that mean that the board will be closed to all non-RCCA members? The RCCA members (like all clubs) sacrifice their time & efforts for other people people with similar interests & will do the same back etc, its the basic principle of a non-profit club (well i believe!) So you dont wanna join the RCCA or help it in any way, but use it to get cheap apparrel? read that a few times & see how it makes you come across... Board closed to non-RCCA members? WTF are you talking about? the RCCA doesnt have a board? Except for the panel of members that make up the committee... If you're asking if when the RCCA gets the new site up & running, will it have a forum & will you have to be a member to use it? Restricting the use of a web site to members only, is the craziest thing i've ever heard & will NEVER happen, as its against the fundamental reason for having a club! *slaps Ringo 3 stooges style* The only reason you would need to close a forum, would be to reduce bandwidth costs etc... which wouldnt happen with a proper club as its got sponsorship to keep it going. But what about secret/special deals? thats why you have club cards! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty nail Posted 18, May 2005 Report Share Posted 18, May 2005 Thats all very cool stuff Nate! As i have posted before, although i forget if it was in Admin or here... i'm all for us becoming closer to the RCCA, in a measured manner, it would appear that we would be able to plug many of our needs and events quite nicely into their current structure, and enjoy the mutual benefits... This forum and website must remain open and free to the general public, sure if you want to make it exclusive have a members chat area, but even for the RCCA it would be silly to have it accessed by only members. One of the problems we faced at Club Lotus was how to get all the new elise and exige drivers interested in our club events... a website and forum such as this would have been a perfect face to the crowd, a great way to introduce people with a general interest in Clios/Meganes to the Renault faithful... It doesn't have to turn into a look how great the RCCA is forum, but features such as banners advertising the RCCA merchandise, or discounts and benefits that are available to RCCA members would help justify the costs associated with subsidising the website an forum hosting. Common areas such as image gallery's and FAQ's could be combined on a central html site, but still free to use for everyone, with the idea to build famliarity with the club and their events, then also communicate the extra value of being a member... but not to force membership on people who may not be able to use it... You could also offer a RCCA web-membership fee of $5 to allow you to post pics and other content intesive gear. It would be included in the standard club membership (an added bonus for existing club members and feature for those joining) but it woud also allow for interstate or international users to gain full functionality without paying for services or benefits they will never reap... include possibly even the RCCA E-newsletter (not sure if they've got one yet) If you didn't want to pay the $5 you could still use the forums free of charge... exactly as everyone is currently doing... Also it would be nice if this forum was diluted and turned into a hub for all things renault, this site is more suited to a couple of spoke on that wheel covering the Clio sport and Megane sport variants... building parallel forums would be one idea otherwise linking and building a similar relationship with the aussie frogs forum could be a solution... I feel much of this sites value is its focused nature... Flame on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Posted 18, May 2005 Report Share Posted 18, May 2005 If you're asking if when the RCCA gets the new site up & running, will it have a forum & will you have to be a member to use it?Restricting the use of a web site to members only, is the craziest thing i've ever heard & will NEVER happen This forum and website must remain open and free to the general public umm are people not reading posts or ignoring them? this "must be a member/pay to use the forum" has NEVER EVER been raised as an option ANYWHERE EVER... Why are people continually saying "the forum must remain free", its never been in question! As i have stated, the RCCA website will remain 100% free to use for anyone on the planet. Russ, as for the features you mentioned, its exactly what we're currently working on & towards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty nail Posted 18, May 2005 Report Share Posted 18, May 2005 Sorry mate, i've been skimming the posts at work... may have missed some detail... PM me with the features you're working on in full... i'd be interested to have a look and help where time permits... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black04RSC Posted 18, May 2005 Report Share Posted 18, May 2005 Umm... This may be an over simplification but couldn't the ppl who enjoy browsing this forum and going on the occasional Cruise/KK run continue to do that and the ppl who want to take things further join the RCCA? Does this forum have to be part of the RCCA. Personally, i enjoy browsing this forum and reading all the posts and providing answers and info when i have it. I don't really want to join the RCCA. My interest is primarily in the Clio. I love my car I've been a paid up member of the MX-5 Club of NSW when i had my MX-5 and i still enjoy going on drives with the MX-5 guys but i know that i didn't really utilise all of the benifts membership afforded me and the politics involved in an 'official' club left me cold... I've got no problem giving Paul a few bucks to help with hosting costs. Just my POV Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exstatic Posted 18, May 2005 Report Share Posted 18, May 2005 The WRX club works in a similar way to what you are proposing, your membership covers a few things such as magazine, sticker and a CAMS type license to give you the ability to race in thier championships. As with the forum, there is a members only section for paid members, and non members only section for non paying it works really well, but they are only in victoria, so the committe is easier to manage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dish Posted 18, May 2005 Report Share Posted 18, May 2005 Wow, so much happens around here these days that if you miss out on logging in for 48 hours it takes you at least 3 hours to catch up on everything! OK, perhaps I may just be pouring Optimax on the fire here, but here are my somewhat random thoughts on this topic... May I just say that, as a few of you have also said, if one wants to join the RCCA then just go ahead and do it. There's nothing stopping you from still being a member here. I for one am content just using this avenue as a social hub, and a spot for chatting about all things RenaultSport related. I find it a great technical resource too of course. Why complicate issues by getting into the nitty gritty of officialdom when the comraderie of our unofficial status allows us to do whatever the hell we please? It's a free world, goddammit, so let us do what we please! We can't all be shepherds, but we shouldn't be sheep either. Hey, I don't want every Tom, Dick & Harry clambering on board just cos they think it's cool to be a member (no offence Snappy hehe) as I kinda like the underground nature of this community of ours. I may not have been involved in car clubs before, but I have been involved in plenty of business partnerships to know that all the officialdom gets in the way of a good time. So, go the anarchy option, I say! Also, it seems to me that the members here that most want to follow the RCCA road are from Sydney, or am I mistaken? Dare I say that I am one of the more regular Victorian posters here, and in the past for example have attempted on occasions to organise drive days... with fairly poor response rates. Until recently, those that have turned up have been regular attendees, and I understand that we can't always make it to certain events due to other commitments in the real world. I for one am very time poor (and there are bound to be others in the same boat) and have missed many opportunities to meet up too. Sure, drive days are only a small part of what we are all about and here for. A fully-fledged car club is a completely different animal, and to take the option of being an offshoot of the RCCA makes life simpler... but the thing is, do we need it? I said this in the admin section, and still stand by it: Nate, I appreciate your efforts and your reasoning behind your methodology, but I still feel that our members are of a slightly different mindset to those in the RCCA. A lot of people here (both admin & non-admin) are probably not even huge Renault fans - they are more than likely simply Clio Sport & Megane Sport fans. I'm tipping most wouldn't give a sh*t about the heritage of the brand - they just see Renaultsport badged cars as being a hot, affordable & interesting alternative to the Japanese models out there. I for one cannot get excited by the sight of a 17 Gordini... and yet many others probably wouldn't even know what one was! I could ramble on... but to put it simply: if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOXMAN Posted 18, May 2005 Report Share Posted 18, May 2005 Wow, so much happens around here these days that if you miss out on logging in for 48 hours it takes you at least 3 hours to catch up on everything! OK, perhaps I may just be pouring Optimax on the fire here, but here are my somewhat random thoughts on this topic... May I just say that, as a few of you have also said, if one wants to join the RCCA then just go ahead and do it. There's nothing stopping you from still being a member here. I for one am content just using this avenue as a social hub, and a spot for chatting about all things RenaultSport related. I find it a great technical resource too of course. Why complicate issues by getting into the nitty gritty of officialdom when the comraderie of our unofficial status allows us to do whatever the hell we please? It's a free world, goddammit, so let us do what we please! We can't all be shepherds, but we shouldn't be sheep either. Hey, I don't want every Tom, Dick & Harry clambering on board just cos they think it's cool to be a member (no offence Snappy hehe) as I kinda like the underground nature of this community of ours. I may not have been involved in car clubs before, but I have been involved in plenty of business partnerships to know that all the officialdom gets in the way of a good time. So, go the anarchy option, I say! Also, it seems to me that the members here that most want to follow the RCCA road are from Sydney, or am I mistaken? Dare I say that I am one of the more regular Victorian posters here, and in the past for example have attempted on occasions to organise drive days... with fairly poor response rates. Until recently, those that have turned up have been regular attendees, and I understand that we can't always make it to certain events due to other commitments in the real world. I for one am very time poor (and there are bound to be others in the same boat) and have missed many opportunities to meet up too. Sure, drive days are only a small part of what we are all about and here for. A fully-fledged car club is a completely different animal, and to take the option of being an offshoot of the RCCA makes life simpler... but the thing is, do we need it? I said this in the admin section, and still stand by it: Nate, I appreciate your efforts and your reasoning behind your methodology, but I still feel that our members are of a slightly different mindset to those in the RCCA. A lot of people here (both admin & non-admin) are probably not even huge Renault fans - they are more than likely simply Clio Sport & Megane Sport fans. I'm tipping most wouldn't give a sh*t about the heritage of the brand - they just see Renaultsport badged cars as being a hot, affordable & interesting alternative to the Japanese models out there. I for one cannot get excited by the sight of a 17 Gordini... and yet many others probably wouldn't even know what one was! I could ramble on... but to put it simply: if it ain't broke, don't fix it. alright ive sat on the fence and watched for long enough........ My 2 cents worth........ When this site started it came about cause the other site was not user friendly and people were putting up the same posts day in day out about the same pld stories " Do 17's fit " Whats a good airfilter " " Whats mods have been done" etc etc etc. Well i can say that nothing has changed from th old site. We are still getting the same posts up time and time again. What happened to the sticky threads about these???? This site might be user friendly but we are just going round in circles chasing our tails!! Iam not a renault fan at all but i can see the pluses about going to the RCCA. You don't have to pay money where now the admin are asking for money at drive days! There is no spondership on here where we can get discounts etc etc etc. I think what nate says is spot on the money!! Iam pretty sure if we got discounts for our cars all you guys would be over the moon about it. Its quite easy for People on the admin i wont name names they know who they are that think they know everything about what we the users want. I don't agree with the phrase IF ITS NOT BROKEN DON"T FIX IT!!!!! We need to move forward out of the dark ages and realise that things get better with change. If we all used that phrase we wouldnt have the 182 etc etc. One more point just cause you are on ADMIN dosnt give you the right to harass/abuse other owners about mods etc done to there car. Just cause you like your car standard dosn't mean the next guy does. I for one don't like a standard car so iam i wrong/stupid for this???? i don't post much cause of all the crap that goes on in here. Its time for a change people. A change for the better for all of us!!! ( Vote 1 Foxman for ADMIN ) Well that enough for today!!! Grant!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ringo Posted 18, May 2005 Report Share Posted 18, May 2005 I could ramble on... but to put it simply: if it ain't broke, don't fix it. dish, the problem is that the website needs funding to run. This is not a problem, and I am more than happy to throw some cash pauly's way... however surely you can see a "I donated $30, which means I am more important and better than someone who donated $15" arguments coming up everywhere. For me, if we can solve that then I think that is a great way. I agree that once things become more formal and politics start ruling things can get less fun, but surely we are all friends... well some of us are, aren't we michellin man!.... and maybe, just maybe we can put this bickering behind us and come up with a solution. Come on guys, less flamin and more solving (and don't bother to say that i'm usually the one that does the flamin around here cause i'm well aware of it!) ringo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmacleod Posted 18, May 2005 Report Share Posted 18, May 2005 It was a lot of hardwork to get teh cards pritned, and the initial batch of stickers... but no one except the dedicated few got them, and certainly no new member has bougth them, despite the fact more than a few threads has been since posted on stickers and the like. I get the hint Karl, I'll be in to pick up my replacement sticker soon ok! Seriously, I have no problem with RCCA affiliation. They are already organized and set up and that's half the battle. One of the "Big 4" East's was on the charity drive day I did recently, and at the end of the day he bailed me up to chat Renault and RCCA. They seem really keen for people like us to get involved. I'd already be a member if the timings worked out and I wasn't so slack Cheers, Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storms_of_fate Posted 18, May 2005 Report Share Posted 18, May 2005 I get the hint Karl, I'll be in to pick up my replacement sticker soon ok! Seriously, I have no problem with RCCA affiliation. They are already organized and set up and that's half the battle. One of the "Big 4" East's was on the charity drive day I did recently, and at the end of the day he bailed me up to chat Renault and RCCA. They seem really keen for people like us to get involved. I'd already be a member if the timings worked out and I wasn't so slack Cheers, Paul hehe mate, you are the dedicated few! I do remember your original one got wiped out, and we now also have a common hate for 4wD owners who can't handle their vehicle? hehe i still got em, one is saved for you. And DEB!!!!! If you are free, or if anyone is free come to the next rcca meeting and find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storms_of_fate Posted 18, May 2005 Report Share Posted 18, May 2005 alright ive sat on the fence and watched for long enough........ My 2 cents worth........ When this site started it came about cause the other site was not user friendly and people were putting up the same posts day in day out about the same pld stories " Do 17's fit " Whats a good airfilter " " Whats mods have been done" etc etc etc. Well i can say that nothing has changed from th old site. We are still getting the same posts up time and time again. What happened to the sticky threads about these???? This site might be user friendly but we are just going round in circles chasing our tails!! Iam not a renault fan at all but i can see the pluses about going to the RCCA. You don't have to pay money where now the admin are asking for money at drive days! There is no spondership on here where we can get discounts etc etc etc. I think what nate says is spot on the money!! Iam pretty sure if we got discounts for our cars all you guys would be over the moon about it. Its quite easy for People on the admin i wont name names they know who they are that think they know everything about what we the users want. I don't agree with the phrase IF ITS NOT BROKEN DON"T FIX IT!!!!! We need to move forward out of the dark ages and realise that things get better with change. If we all used that phrase we wouldnt have the 182 etc etc. One more point just cause you are on ADMIN dosnt give you the right to harass/abuse other owners about mods etc done to there car. Just cause you like your car standard dosn't mean the next guy does. I for one don't like a standard car so iam i wrong/stupid for this???? i don't post much cause of all the crap that goes on in here. Its time for a change people. A change for the better for all of us!!! ( Vote 1 Foxman for ADMIN ) Well that enough for today!!! Grant!!!!! well what do you know? quiet fellow, but when he says something... agree agree. Just one more thing on the yahoo site, not only did this not fix the original issue of people posting repeated stuff... it doesn't fix the off topic stuff either. As a mailinglist, we can deleted the things we didn't want to read. here that's not possible, it sits on the screen everytime you login. Anyway to more important bits... recenlty i can see more and more people wanting an image gallery, umm someone suggested fault regiser a few times... guess what? those already exist on www.ozrenaultsport.tk the yahoo site! Working together with the RCCA brings so much benifits as people have already put forward. It maybe hard to see now because no one has actually see ant final product, or bothered with some product info from the manufacturer... this thing can be interstate, even if you are only using the merchendise/service bits. I mean comeon! I bought everything I have on the car so far, the big money ones from VIC!??? Grant should still join in, we can use you to carry broken Renaults on drive days, and you know it will happen! [/b] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dish Posted 19, May 2005 Report Share Posted 19, May 2005 This is all so deja vu... and it's taken only 14 months or so! Nice to see the enthusiasm from both sides of the fence. Don't throw your hands up and walk away, whatever you do. We have a great group of enthusiasts here, and let's not forget that enthusiasm for the RenaultSport product is what we mainly have in common. It comes in many forms of course: some people signed up here (or at Yahoo!, cliosport.net or wherever) because they like the informal nature of the email/web-forum; some people like to get more involved and join an official club like the RCCA; some people like to do both. There's nothing wrong with any of that. Now to address some things... Matt, I commend your efforts in forming the Altezza group, and being a relatively young brand in the grand scheme of things, it was bound to happen. As some of you have already pointed out, all of this is available already for RenaultSport fans in the form of the RCCA, so we would just be an extension of that if we went that way. The way I see it, if that happens then the natural extension of that is a replication of this informal format for those that don't want to be tied into the RCCA, then some members will want to become more official and... it will just cycle infinatum! See what I mean? Andrew, I understand that this site needs funding in order to run. But I can't see why someone can't just stump up what they can afford whenever they can afford it. Donations are a goodwill thing. It's not like Paul D has asked everyone of us to stump up a fiver or he'll boot non-payers out! Nobody should be criticised due to their lack of financial input. I'd like the bickering to stop too, but you have to break a few eggs to make an omelette! I think this is very constructive stuff we are achieving here. Now Grant, we've never had cross words before, and I hope this isn't the start of an exchange, cos I'm not into flaming. Peace man! But dude, don't quote me and then say you won't name names!! (FYI, I don't mind modding at all, if done tastefully with realistic expectations... and figures to back it up if one's gonna brag about it When I can afford to I too will be doing a few things to mine. Sure they're great outta the box, but anything can be improved... but I digress) Grant, I agree that things (sometimes) improve with change, and we (admin) were in the process of modifying this site in order to make it less repetitious for the regulars, with better info pages for newbies & regulars alike. Things can't just happen overnight though. And as for the existence of the 182, they still haven't got it right - ask ClioF1! It only came about due to the 206GTi 180 being released. BTW, Karlos, your statement "As a mailinglist, we can deleted the things we didn't want to read. here that's not possible, it sits on the screen everytime you login" doesn't hold any weight - sure the topic thread is listed, but you don't have to open & read the thread if you don't want to! That's the beauty of the forum's format - it's much better than getting your Inbox flooded with sh*t. It gets shuffled down over time anyway when newer threads replace it at the top of the tree. So, flame away people! muhahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOXMAN Posted 19, May 2005 Report Share Posted 19, May 2005 This is all so deja vu... and it's taken only 14 months or so! Nice to see the enthusiasm from both sides of the fence. Don't throw your hands up and walk away, whatever you do. We have a great group of enthusiasts here, and let's not forget that enthusiasm for the RenaultSport product is what we mainly have in common. It comes in many forms of course: some people signed up here (or at Yahoo!, cliosport.net or wherever) because they like the informal nature of the email/web-forum; some people like to get more involved and join an official club like the RCCA; some people like to do both. There's nothing wrong with any of that. Now to address some things... Matt, I commend your efforts in forming the Altezza group, and being a relatively young brand in the grand scheme of things, it was bound to happen. As some of you have already pointed out, all of this is available already for RenaultSport fans in the form of the RCCA, so we would just be an extension of that if we went that way. The way I see it, if that happens then the natural extension of that is a replication of this informal format for those that don't want to be tied into the RCCA, then some members will want to become more official and... it will just cycle infinatum! See what I mean? Andrew, I understand that this site needs funding in order to run. But I can't see why someone can't just stump up what they can afford whenever they can afford it. Donations are a goodwill thing. It's not like Paul D has asked everyone of us to stump up a fiver or he'll boot non-payers out! Nobody should be criticised due to their lack of financial input. I'd like the bickering to stop too, but you have to break a few eggs to make an omelette! I think this is very constructive stuff we are achieving here. Now Grant, we've never had cross words before, and I hope this isn't the start of an exchange, cos I'm not into flaming. Peace man! But dude, don't quote me and then say you won't name names!! (FYI, I don't mind modding at all, if done tastefully with realistic expectations... and figures to back it up if one's gonna brag about it When I can afford to I too will be doing a few things to mine. Sure they're great outta the box, but anything can be improved... but I digress) Grant, I agree that things (sometimes) improve with change, and we (admin) were in the process of modifying this site in order to make it less repetitious for the regulars, with better info pages for newbies & regulars alike. Things can't just happen overnight though. And as for the existence of the 182, they still haven't got it right - ask ClioF1! It only came about due to the 206GTi 180 being released. BTW, Karlos, your statement "As a mailinglist, we can deleted the things we didn't want to read. here that's not possible, it sits on the screen everytime you login" doesn't hold any weight - sure the topic thread is listed, but you don't have to open & read the thread if you don't want to! That's the beauty of the forum's format - it's much better than getting your Inbox flooded with sh*t. It gets shuffled down over time anyway when newer threads replace it at the top of the tree. So, flame away people! muhahaha Dish, I know things carnt happen over night but how long has this site been going for now?? Nothing has changed the rate we are going at it wont happen for another 5 years. Regards to the 182 being right has nothing to do with anything!! I was making the point of MOVING FORWARD not that the car is perfect or not. My opinon is taht there is TO MANY ADMIN PEOPLE!!! You carnt agree on what to do so here we are again!!! With regards to not naming names i wasnt refering to you or your post i was refering to another ADMIN person who seem to think that its his way or no way!!!! This is the whole reason i don't post on here cause once again we are going around in circles not getting anywhere!! Guys lets move forward one way or another. RCCA for me is the best option cause of the Motokanas track days chance for cheaper advance driving days and the thing everybody loves discounts!!!!! Grant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dish Posted 19, May 2005 Report Share Posted 19, May 2005 I know things carnt happen over night but how long has this site been going for now?? Nothing has changed the rate we are going at it wont happen for another 5 years. Regards to the 182 being right has nothing to do with anything!! I was making the point of MOVING FORWARD not that the car is perfect or not. My opinon is taht there is TO MANY ADMIN PEOPLE!!! You carnt agree on what to do so here we are again!!! With regards to not naming names i wasnt refering to you or your post i was refering to another ADMIN person who seem to think that its his way or no way!!!! This is the whole reason i don't post on here cause once again we are going around in circles not getting anywhere!! Guys lets move forward one way or another. RCCA for me is the best option cause of the Motokanas track days chance for cheaper advance driving days and the thing everybody loves discounts!!!!! Grant. Cool man. We are doing things in the interest of the group though - that's why the results of the poll are also being monitored. Whether we do or don't go with the RCCA will depend on what the majority want to do. This site chugged along for a while but now seems to have found some speed... but it needs to find its feet too! Let's not do or say anything that may be regretted later Hope to see you on here more regularly though. Cheers, Dish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kikkoman Posted 19, May 2005 Report Share Posted 19, May 2005 Each member has their own reason for using this site. For me, I know nothing about my RSC until i joined this website, I am 'starting' to understand more about my RSC. (It would be good if there is a thread called the 'idiot's guide to RSC' ) I guess there will never be a right answer/decision. I say we should take a vote/poll or race it out on the track/go-kart or something... whatever the outcome, we should respect it and abide to it. Otherwise, the bickering, slagging each other off will go on for eternity and still no final decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackie Posted 19, May 2005 Report Share Posted 19, May 2005 I think the poll indicate what does the majorty of us want. I think this site has already achieve its aim, exchange and sharing experience of the RCS and RMS,organise some casual drive day. We even have people from delearships to contribute in here (Aus and Kurt). Personally I think thats all I want from the site. Is it that important to get recognise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno Posted 19, May 2005 Report Share Posted 19, May 2005 My 2c... I am going to make it short I think that the relaxed atmosphere and flow in/flow out attitude of these forums is great, and is something that will be lost with a more structured entity like RCCA. I think this forum has moved on from the yahoo site in leaps and bounds, and has solved a lot of fundamental problems that people disliked about that group. With this site, there are various users... people who like to just read and partake on certain topics, and others who like to go on social events and then you more enthusiast type members who hang out for track days. This forum accommodates all of them and those who want a CAMS license as mentioned before generally already have one. I think that mashing the two different demographics of the RCCA and OzRenaultSport together will result in certain disharmony. Although we all have a primary interest of Renaults, we generally like to do different things with our cars and use them differently. Its great the RCCA has shirts, and can be recognized as a group in that way. i sure wouldn’t buy one and certainly wouldn’t wear one to a drive day. I think having 10+ Renaults parked together is a strong enough representation of Renault enthusiast associating together. Things like this are where I think we may not see eye-to-eye. Does OzRenaultSport really need to grow beyond a gallery and a informative web page? I think it is a great resource for what it has intended to set out and achieve. If money is the problem there is no reasons why sponsors cant be obtained here too. With regards to people tipping in money to maintain the site, how do we know who has put in X amount of money? We wont… I know I won’t go gloating about how I have put in $20(for example) and I can’t imagine others doing it too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Posted 19, May 2005 Report Share Posted 19, May 2005 I think that the relaxed atmosphere and flow in/flow out attitude of these forums is great, and is something that will be lost with a more structured entity like RCCA. LOL RCCA structured!!! thats a classic... Once again this proves people are making comments about the RCCA that have NO idea whatsoever about the club. The club has a structure, its not formal in ANY way. I think that mashing the two different demographics of the RCCA and OzRenaultSport together will result in certain disharmony. Can you please explain the demographic of the RCCA for me? and the disharmony it will create? Although we all have a primary interest of Renaults, we generally like to do different things with our cars and use them differently. really? what do the RCCA like to do with their Renaults? Its great the RCCA has shirts, and can be recognized as a group in that way. i sure wouldn’t buy one and certainly wouldn’t wear one to a drive day. No we dont... we have the CAPACITY to... If you read correctly into it, then having a closer affiliation (DONT have to be members or a formal affiliation etc) would mean making OZRenaultSport clothing would be VERY cheap & easy by leveraging off the relationship with the RCCA. If money is the problem there is no reasons why sponsors cant be obtained here too. Yes there is & it has been VERY adequately covered in Matt's (Thunderbird2) post previously. Can people please stop making these ridiculous & completely unfounded comments about the RCCA. There are less than 1/2 doz members on here that have ANY real knowledge about the club. They are: Myself, Karl (Storms of Fate), Dom, Matt (Thunderbird2) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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