Hello! Clio 2 PH1

[orrock]

Hello! I am a new owner of a Clio 2 Phase 1 and this is my first french car. Hope you don't mind I will probably start asking lots of questions but I hope to in the future be able to give others help too.

Having read someone mention before a first aid kit for the PH1 is anyone able to advise please some things I could consider? I have started using a spare key to open the fuel cap because I am afraid to accidentally damage the main key that I use in the ignition having heard of a variety of non-starting issues that sometimes is traced to the key. This spare key is just the blade in an empty case (no transponder inside) and is only used for unlocking the fuel cap each time I need to refuel.

I have read about window switches failing, I can imagine going out and not able to put the window up and if it rains because the switch for rising the window stops working suddenly. So having a spare drivers window switch as part of the first aid kit would be a good start I think. Any other ideas for quick fixes that can be carried in the car?

Thank you!

[HamishW96]

I just clean the switches and reseat them if they stuff up. French tings. If you haven't already, check the crank sensor. A blue one will show it's an updated part. Also, have any belts ever been done to your knowledge? 

[orrock]

Thanks Hamish! The previous owner gave me a new crank sensor which he planned on replacing but didn't get around to it. I need to see what colour it is but I think it is from a generic or OEM rather than genuine renault part. What symptoms or issues might arise if the sensor is not replaced? Would it need to be replaced periodically or was the factory sensor bad to start with and replacing that should be good going forward.

Thanks also for the point about the belts. I was told they were done along with the water pump and the like.

[rob 240]

Pics please 

[orrock]

Let me fix a few things first and then I would be pleased to send some photos up!

[HamishW96]

20 hours ago, orrock said:

Thanks Hamish! The previous owner gave me a new crank sensor which he planned on replacing but didn't get around to it. I need to see what colour it is but I think it is from a generic or OEM rather than genuine renault part. What symptoms or issues might arise if the sensor is not replaced? Would it need to be replaced periodically or was the factory sensor bad to start with and replacing that should be good going forward.

Thanks also for the point about the belts. I was told they were done along with the water pump and the like.

Okay so if the crank sensor goes bad the car wont start lol. The blue one is just an updated sensor/loom. A new generic will be fine. 

any clue when they were done?

[orrock]

Done a year ago. Thanks very much for the info! Well at times it does not start. Turn the key and it is like a flat battery if you are thinking the immobiliser I have paid attention to that and it should be disabled by the way the red circle light from the cluster. Turn the key again and again and it fires up. French thing right?

[vaughan]

On 04/01/2019 at 7:23 PM, orrock said:

Turn the key and it is like a flat battery...

If the battery is more than a couple of years old, it probably IS the battery.

Check the terminals are clean and the earth straps are secure and working.

[Mase]

Does the ‘two key turn’ anomaly effect the Ph 1? Perhaps a new .cal file with the patch would be the go? Just a thought

Just some feedback on this calibration update on my Ph 2. Since loaded the car has started first time every time. It’s been about 5-6 years guessing. Still on a black TDC sensor too.


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[vaughan]

Regarding the crank sensors, I believe the upgraded blue sensor has a better plug and socket and the sensor part is basically the same. Happy to be corrected. 

[Mase]

Regarding the crank sensors, I believe the upgraded blue sensor has a better plug and socket and the sensor part is basically the same. Happy to be corrected. 

Likely. A friend gave me a good tip on the old one. Small pliers and rotate the square pins on the male end 45 degrees and a squirt of proper electrical contact cleaner, re seat and you are good .. for a while ha ha .. then I applied the patch. Problem solved [emoji1303]


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[orrock]

Thanks for all the information! Going to be interesting once I have replaced the sensor (I have it already anyhow) to see whether the issue goes away.

[orrock]

I appreciate the tips and insight. I will attempt replacing the crank angle sensor next weekend and give an update.

In the meantime if anyone would like to see the half minute video I recorded the other night. On the 10th cycle of turning the key in the ignition did it fire up. There is no pattern to when this non-starting issue. It can be cold and start on the first try. Or I have driven for a while and stopped at the shops for some bread and get back to the car and I will need to cycle the key in the ignition several times before it goes. It is not audible in the video, but at every cycle there is a puff which sounds like a canister. I am curious would anyone know what that might be?

 

 

 

[Mase]

Sound could be fuel pump priming. Least in the phase II you will get this on the 2nd key turn and perhaps after that too but I’ve never gotten that far.

Pump is in tank under the rear seat.


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[Mase]

Try this. Can’t hurt. Turn to past accessories but not to engine crank then off again. Then turn to start car normally. See if that makes a difference to the no start problem. Don’t rush it tho. Just eliminating if it’s the two key turn issue.


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[ttimbo]

Try this. Can’t hurt. Turn to past accessories but not to engine crank then off again. Then turn to start car normally. See if that makes a difference to the no start problem. Don’t rush it tho. Just eliminating if it’s the two key turn issue.

I just learnt of this with my 182. You should hear the fuel pump kick in with the second turn of the key.

#becauseFrench

[Mase]

I just learnt of this with my 182. You should hear the fuel pump kick in with the second turn of the key.

#becauseFrench

Henk does a calibration update (RSTuner) that will solve that permanently


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[Moosey]

Could also be a flat battery in the key.

 

What's youe LE number, by the way? We keep a register here: 

 

[Gambit]

Yes it might be the immobilizer , usually the transponder in the key fob plays up. 

[orrock]

Appreciate the help guys! I was thinking about the immobiliser and if it was not detecting the chip inside the key it should normally be flashing quickly instead of being solid, solid as all the other icons are such as check engine light.

Battery is 6 months old. Starter motor was changed apparently. Only thing I know that was not replaced that I have read could be the reason is the crankshaft position sensor.

I will try the two key turn and not to rush it.

Will look at the register! Thanks for pointing it out 👍

[vaughan]

Unfortunately the P1 uses a different immobiliser system to the 172 P2 and P3 (182). I'm familiar with the P2 immobiliser but don't know how relevant this is to the P1. Not many people do.

I believe the P1 remotes have to come from Renault France and must be coded for the VIN over there. It's not possible to buy them over here (unlike the P2 remotes that can be flashed here by third parties.)

For the172 P2 and 182:
immobiliser light flashes fast = remote chip not recognised
immobiliser light on constantly = remote chip has been accepted but some other problem with the system prevents the car from starting

The crank sensor is a common cause for the solid light problem. So is a break in the white CANBUS wire in the loom to the engine CPU. Ive also found that a dying battery causes immobiliser problems too.

Before buying new keys, re-solder all the components on the circuit board.

Edited 14, January 2019 by vaughan

[Dave200]

New key for your VIN from France is about $300, then about $80 for a dealer to code it. Its not too bad cost wise

[Moosey]

Yes crank sensor is another common issue.

[vaughan]

On 10/01/2019 at 3:22 PM, orrock said:

In the meantime if anyone would like to see the half minute video I recorded the other night. On the 10th cycle of turning the key in the ignition did it fire up.

My P2 did this with both keys so I assumed it was a problem with something other than the keys. It turned out both keys were bad.

I was stranded for almost 40 minutes in a servo after filling with fuel one day. Car started only after I started squeezing the remote very firmly, enough to make the pcb flex. I drove straight home and re-flowed the solder on all the components on the pcb and it fixed both keys.

Use a fine-tipped electronics soldering iron, get it hot, and press on each joint until you see the metal melt then remove the iron and let it cool carefully being careful not to move anything (otherwise the joint goes bad). Do one joint at a time so the tiny devices don't fall off or move.

Edited 21, January 2019 by vaughan

[Mase]

My P2 did this with both keys so I assumed it was a problem with something other than the keys. It turned out both keys were bad.
I was stranded for almost 40 minutes in a servo after filling with fuel one day. Car started only after I started squeezing the remote very firmly, enough to make the pcb flex. I drove straight home and re-flowed the solder on all the components on the pcb and it fixed both keys.
Use a fine-tipped electronics soldering iron, get it hot, and press on each joint until you see the metal melt then remove the iron and let it cool carefully being careful not to move anything (otherwise the joint goes bad). Do one joint at a time so the tiny devices don't fall off or move. [emoji4]

Good problem solving right there. One or three dry joint joints on a pcb that is flexed day in day out. No joy. 30 mins on the soldering iron. $800 of issues solved. I like it. Full marks Vaughan.


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[orrock]

I love this forum! The replies are incredibly helpful and covers all angles. Lesson for me is to remember it's french so the unlikely things should not be neglected and also looked into.
I will see when I can replace the crank sensor and update here on the result. Cheers!

[rob 240]

that's great to hear!

[orrock]

Hello!

It has been a month or more from the last time I posted an update. Thanks for the advice on the two turn key and though I tried it many times unfortunately it did not help me. As talked about before, I finally got to replacing the crank position sensor thinking it would resolve my intermittent starting issue. I am still having the starting issue. Although I was told the starter motor was replaced last year, I am thinking of looking into it more. I have heard even for new starter motors they can get cause intermittent starting due to it getting stuck or having a bad ground connection. Seems that others have had success with knocking it with a piece of wood.

For the driver's window issue, it went down but not back up. A friend helped and used a power probe and everything looked good. We were puzzled until we decided to replace the relay. Replaced 2 black relays and the window works! I am not sure if it should be like this but with the faulty relays when we shake them theres a knocking sound from within. Now all windows go down and up as expected.

[Moosey]

where did you source the relays?

[Dave200]

I also had a persistent poor starting issue, moreso when engine was cold. I fixed this by removing the ICV (idle control valve) and soaking the nipple and spring mechanism with carb cleaner. I then re-lubed those areas using a dry lube spray. It now starts first time every time.

I also thought the crank angle sensor was to blame but this didn't help me.

[orrock]

On 06/03/2019 at 6:50 PM, Moosey said:

where did you source the relays?

The relays are used condition from the wreckers. Though it sat in the yard for weeks or months even, it works to make my window go both down and up. I incidentally pulled off 2 black relays from a Megane to add to my first aid kit for the Ph1. Little did I know I would used them both right away.

[orrock]

Hi everyone!

What is the method you use to clean the electrical contacts? I have got a slight issue with the rear lights. It started with the rear fog light on the speedo lighting up at the same time when the brake is pressed (a common issue with Clios). After using CRC contact cleaner (safe for plastic and sensitive components) the issue has moved off being in unison with the brake and now the rear fog light symbol is lit in sync with either left or right indicator. It is only the symbol on the speedo, when I got out and look at the rear lights the fog light is not really lit. I am therefore going to attempt cleaning the contacts on the bulb holder and loom connector again but seems that contact cleaner is not strong enough. I was wondering what others do? Emery board for fingernails? It would be great to get some ideas from the others  here, something that can remove the corrosion or whatever it is causing the contacts to arc or what, but not being excessively abrasive. Thanks!

[krappy]

You can use some sandpaper/emery board etc to clean the metal connections, but I would also recommend getting some Deoxit contact cleaner - you can usually buy it from electronics places like Jaycar etc or even instrument/sound equipment suppliers. It's brilliant stuff!

[orrock]

A week after the post above on April 16 the issue went away on its own! Go figure! As I was worried the issue may come back as surprisingly as it went away, having read about dielectric silicone grease to prevent moisture and corrosion on terminals, I made a bad decision and applied it to both the rear lights (terminal pins on the bulb holder).

Immediately I got BATT, STOP and SERV as well as intermittently the ENGINE light. I did not suspect anything really to be wrong and was certain it was the grease which is non conductive (dielectric) to prevent arcing. When I reached a slope in the road I had severely loss of power, feeling about to stall. It was like trying to drive in 5th gear and when at a speed hump I was only just able to get over it.

I parked and removed the rear lights. Sprayed contact cleaner multiple times on both the bulb holder and the harness from the car. I had a toothbrush and used that to help as the solvent in contact cleaner was not strong enough to remove all of the silicone grease. I let it air dry on its own for 10 minutes, put the rear lights back together and the issue went away! Back to driving round with full power rather than being lumpy  whereby I had to feather the acceleration (pressing the accelerator further to expect more power was only causing die to the point of stalling). Once with momentum I was able to drive at 80km/h as normal, besides occasionally a feedback from the engine maybe jerk is how I can describe it (with BATT, STOP and SERVE and the occasional ENGINE lights) but when from a stand still it had no power.

Rather than, just because its French. Does anyone have any idea what was going on? Confused. Thanks!

Edited 27, April 2019 by orrock

[Gambit]

I have been pulling apart a Clio II engine loom and all I can say is that the wiring, terminals and plug connectors are all of very low quality combined with the fact the looms are over 15years old there are going to be issues associated with earthing to ground from many contact points. Check all your grounds and give them a good clean would be a start. 

[orrock]

End of April I wrote about experiencing BATT, STOP, SERV as well as ENGINE light. I got a Can Clip and not only did it read misfire, it was able to tell me which ignition coil to replace. One ignition coil was playing up and this caused the engine to intermittently go lumpy. So the issue I had was not related to the rear lights.

I have not had much time on the Can Clip but when I do I am going to see if it is possible to run from it antipollution/emissions values. Given misfire can damage the cat, unfortunately I had no idea it was doing a misfire if I did I would have stopped driving to avoid damaging the cat with unburned fuel. Anyone got experience using Clip?

[Moosey]

Good find 👍

[Matt205]

Did you sort the intermittent starting issue yet? Dollars for doughnuts it's the starter. My old Dimples used to do exactly the same, I got into the habit of lifting the bonnet reaching behind the engine and giving the starter wires a wiggle. Once the starter was swapped it solved the problem.

Edited 6, July 2019 by Matt205

[orrock]

On 07/07/2019 at 7:53 AM, Matt205 said:

Did you sort the intermittent starting issue yet? Dollars for doughnuts it's the starter. My old Dimples used to do exactly the same, I got into the habit of lifting the bonnet reaching behind the engine and giving the starter wires a wiggle. Once the starter was swapped it solved the problem.

Thanks for following and asking about that. Sorry I overlooked updating on that. I ordered a new starter motor from AS-PL in Poland after being impressed by their material on Facebook and considering the Clio is also European. The starter motor removed looked new and as I was told by the last owner that it was replaced but I think it may be due to quality to begin with, an unknown unit from China. I also sent an enquiry to ASPL and they advised the starter motor I order has bolted magnet as opposed to bonded. I read this is the way to go to prevent the magnets from coming off due to heat issues. Perhaps I should take apart the starter unit from China and see whether its magnets are out of position.

I have the Can Clip now and look forward to spending more time on it to see how the Clio is running. If anyone sees anything of interest from the screenshot below please do let me know. On another page, it has an error code logged for aircon circuit open. But my aircon does work. Not sure if that is a live error or one from the past which should be cleared. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!