C3RS "Sport Auto Edition" from Berlin, Germany

[Marsch]

Hello everybody,

just a short introduction from my side. I'm Martin aka Marsch from Berlin, Germany. I own a C3RS "Sport Auto Edition" since may last year already. I'm always looking around to find like-minded people, see what's up in other communities, share infos or just chat with each other.

Here's a photo of my C L I O.

I'll post some more infos and photos about it in a separate thread.

[Nikod123]

That looks amazing [emoji7] welcome!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[apple3337]

Wow, for a minute there I thought this was an automatic gearbox version, but no:https://carbuzz.com/news/99-units-planned-for-the-renault-clio-rs-sport-auto-edition

Martin, we have the same car but it's called the Angel and Demon. We also got a matte red version here.

In the UK it's known as the Silverstone GP edition.

Welcome to the forum.

[SamR]

Welcome to OZRS! Nice Clio you've got there

[Marsch]

12 minutes ago, apple3337 said:

Wow, for a minute there I thought this was an automatic gearbox version, but no:https://carbuzz.com/news/99-units-planned-for-the-renault-clio-rs-sport-auto-edition

Martin, we have the same car but it's called the Angel and Demon. We also got a matte red version here.

In the UK it's known as the Silverstone GP edition.

Welcome to the forum.

I know about the "Ange & Démon" edition and basically all the other ones existing as I've done some extensive research on this topic. My edition was only available in "Stealth Grey" and always came fully equipped (except for parking sensors/assistance).

The UK has a special edition called "Raider" which basically is the same like an "A&D" or "SAE". It's limited to 50 cars and was also only available in grey or red (in Europe you could also get white "A&D"). The "Silverstone GP" edition is something different as it's painted in Mercury Silver (Gris Platine - TE D69).

Thanks a lot!

Edited 6, March 2018 by Marsc

[apple3337]

I'm loving Marsc!

18 posts and 6 likes (so far) on his first day here!

Now that's gonna take some beating

[Marsch]

1 hour ago, apple3337 said:

I'm loving Marsc!

18 posts and 6 likes (so far) on his first day here!

Now that's gonna take some beating

But no "homo", please!

Btw, it's actually "Marsch".  I've just messed up at the registration but the admins were so kind to fix this.

 

 

[apple3337]

Marsch, I'd like to hear about the RS scene in Germany. Are there many RS fans there?

I would have thought that Renault would be squeezed out by the big boys like BMW, AUDI, VW, Porsche.

With all the German built options you could have bought, why the Clio?

[apple3337]

On 3/6/2018 at 12:11 PM, Marsch said:

Hello everybody,

Marsch, I'd like to hear about the RS scene in Germany. Are there many RS fans there?

I would have thought that Renault would be squeezed out by the big boys like BMW, MB, AUDI, VW, Porsche.

With all the German built options you could have bought, why the Clio?

[Marsch]

It's a relatively small scene compared to others like VW for example but there are some RS enthusiasts around. Just take a look at videos from the Nordschleife and you'll see quite a lot of C3RS, C4RS and M3RS around. Meggis and C3RS are actually more rare than C4RS as these sold like sliced bread and you'll see quite a lot of them at least where I live. Thanks to absolutely ridiculous price reductions but most of their drivers aren't what I'd class as real RS fans.

If you haven't seen the "RS Days 2017" thread already then take a look at the following link. Gives a good impression of our scene I'd say.

http://www.ozrenaultsport.com/topic/30352-photos-from-the-rs-days-2017-in-meinhard-germany/

You also shouldn't forget that cars of German manufacturers are often a lot more expensive than what Renault (Sport) has to offer. Renault has a little over 4% market share here and you'll see quite a lot of their lower budget cars on the streets. I'm always amazed how many it actually are when I drive around.

The answer to your last question is easy. I'm actually coming from a Mercedes-Benz family but my first car was a Peugeot 205 GTi 1.6 and that's what got me hooked on French cars. Unfortunately Peugeot doesn't builts anything that interests me anymore. I've checked out various types of 308 GTi and even an RCZ but I'm not a fan of turbos and especially not the new(er) downsized ones. That's why I was explicitly looking for a C3RS. I didn't planned to get a special edition at first and my first choice actually was an Albi Blue Cup but I was only second on the list and the first guy bought it. Then this car here came up and I thought f* it, checked it out and took it home.

 

 

[Marsch]

New T-Shirt.

Edited 10, April 2018 by Marsch

[Renuckle]

On 06/03/2018 at 12:42 PM, Marsch said:

I know about the "Ange & Démon" edition and basically all the other ones existing as I've done some extensive research on this topic. My edition was only available in "Stealth Grey" and always came fully equipped (except for parking sensors/assistance).

The UK has a special edition called "Raider" which basically is the same like an "A&D" or "SAE". It's limited to 50 cars and was also only available in grey or red (in Europe you could also get white "A&D"). The "Silverstone GP" edition is something different as it's painted in Mercury Silver (Gris Platine - TE D69).

Thanks a lot!

A fellow "details" researcher. I'm loving it!

[Marsch]

18 hours ago, Renuckle said:

A fellow "details" researcher. I'm loving it!

Infact you become more confused with every new detail you find out. Renault really has a talent to throw so many different versions out or setups together that you can easily loose track. Often a version isn't available in one colour in country X or version Y has a different gear knob in country X than it has in country Z and so on and so forth. Makes you want to tear out your hair sometimes. 😄

I wish there would be a website summerizing all produced RS versions in detail. Something like the old Roadcars Heritage site from RS UK but with global numbers of course.

 

[Renuckle]

4 hours ago, Marsch said:

Infact you become more confused with every new detail you find out. Renault really has a talent to throw so many different versions out or setups together that you can easily loose track. Often a version isn't available in one colour in country X or version Y has a different gear knob in country X than it has in country Z and so on and so forth. Makes you want to tear out your hair sometimes. 😄

I wish there would be a website summerizing all produced RS versions in detail. Something like the old Roadcars Heritage site from RS UK but with global numbers of course.

 

Agreed 100%.

[Marsch]

First trackday ever with "the bucket" today at the Spreewaldring. Was a great experience. Also fetched a passenger ride in a 630 hp Nissan GT-R as bonus.

 The main thing I took from it is that I definitely need to improve my hand and foot work (@roblee8g 😄).

Edited 8, April 2023 by Marsch

[woot woot]

4 hours ago, Marsch said:

First trackday ever with "the bucket" today at the Spreewaldring. Was a great experience. Also fetched a passenger ride in a 630 hp Nissan GT-R as bonus.

 The main thing I took from it is that I definitely need to improve my hand and foot work (@roblee8g 😄).

I find the hand and foot co-ordination is something I constantly find I need to work or improve. It's not just heel toe, it's judging how much to brake, when to down shift and then choosing a good line and accelerating while keeping the highest amount of speen and car balance. 

[Marsch]

The gear changes actually went quite good I'd say. It's more the braking as you said and how to grip/hold the wheel on track especially in the tight turns. I'm also far away from heel & toe and don't even attempt it, mate. 😄

[woot woot]

2 hours ago, Marsch said:

The gear changes actually went quite good I'd say. It's more the braking as you said and how to grip/hold the wheel on track especially in the tight turns. I'm also far away from heel & toe and don't even attempt it, mate. 😄

I would recommend starting with rev matching on down shifts with day to day stuff, but do it with your foot balanced over the brake pedal, so you don't have to relearn foot position later on.

[Marsch]

I've tried it in the car and also with my wheel and pedals for the PC. I'm simply not able to maintain the desired pressure on the brake pedal and either lift or press harder. Seems I'm simply motorically inept. 😄

But in all honesty I actually think heel & toe is overrated anyway. I know there are people doing it but some of the fastest guys around the NOS like Louis are completely refraining from it because they say it doesn't makes a difference.

Comparison Emir Asari vs. Louis Walter for example.

What ever, I rather start to work on left foot braking instead.

Edited 9, April 2023 by Marsch

[speedfiend41]

1 hour ago, Marsch said:

I've tried it in the car and also with my wheel and pedals for the PC. I'm simply not able to maintain the desired pressure on the brake pedal and either lift or press harder. Seems I'm simply motorically inept. 😄

But in all honesty I actually think heel & toe is overrated anyway. I know there are people doing it but some of the fastest guys around the NOS like Louis are completely refraining from it because they say it doesn't makes a difference.

Comparison Emir Asari vs. Louis Walter for example.

What ever, I rather start to work on left foot braking instead.

I’m not an expert but when I’m in a hill climb event I can’t move my feet fast enough to get it all done on a bumpy, tight track! It’s fun at 8/10ths but not flat out.

[Marsch]

Just noticed that I've posted in the introduction topic and will instead continue here.
 

 

Edited 10, April 2023 by Marsch

[Matt205]

On 09/04/2023 at 7:56 PM, Marsch said:

I've tried it in the car and also with my wheel and pedals for the PC. I'm simply not able to maintain the desired pressure on the brake pedal and either lift or press harder. Seems I'm simply motorically inept. 😄

But in all honesty I actually think heel & toe is overrated anyway. I know there are people doing it but some of the fastest guys around the NOS like Louis are completely refraining from it because they say it doesn't makes a difference.

Comparison Emir Asari vs. Louis Walter for example.

What ever, I rather start to work on left foot braking instead.

Right, that triggered me! 😂

It absolutely makes a difference, most importantly in a road car it vastly extends the life of all the mechanical components by taking a huge amount of load out of the drivetrain, even in normal day to day driving.

It also has a huge bearing on chassis balance, a great (perhaps extreme) example is a drifter using a clutch kick to purposely upset the balance and grip to initiate a slide.

If it made no difference why does every single automated manual box have a blip on the downshift that is finely tuned to ensure the optimal rev match? If it made no difference why would they do it in F1 as it will technically use slightly more fuel and engine revs, both of which are minutely managed at that level.

It is a skill that takes patience and practice to learn, people try a few times and give up. It might take months to get it right and years to master, but please do not dismiss it by saying "someone" reckons it makes no difference. It's OK to admit you can't do it, but don't give up after trying for 5 minutes. A fast laptime is not the only measure of driver skill.

To make you feel bad, I taught my wife to do it as just something you have to do when you drive a manual, she learned manual in about 8hrs, and was heel/toeing competently after a week or so.

My Son was taught the same way, and knows no different. Take the time, put in the work, your car (and lap times) will thank you.

[Matt205]

A quick look at both those videos was interesting, suspect they are quite different in terms of tune etc so comparing laptimes on the basis of heel/toe or not is totally irrelevant.

You can see that Louis is having to be very gentle and very slow with his clutch release, which is fine (and correct if you refuse to learn h/t), but, when the clutch is engaged there is zero drive going to the wheels and the car is effectively coasting out of gear, at corner entry this is far from optimal and detracts from balance and grip, it will affect ultimate laptime. I have no doubt he would be faster if he learned to h/t.

Emir desperately needs a clutch footrest! 😂

[Caduceus]

18 minutes ago, Matt205 said:

Right, that triggered me! 😂

It absolutely makes a difference, most importantly in a road car it vastly extends the life of all the mechanical components by taking a huge amount of load out of the drivetrain, even in normal day to day driving.

It also has a huge bearing on chassis balance, a great (perhaps extreme) example is a drifter using a clutch kick to purposely upset the balance and grip to initiate a slide.

If it made no difference why does every single automated manual box have a blip on the downshift that is finely tuned to ensure the optimal rev match? If it made no difference why would they do it in F1 as it will technically use slightly more fuel and engine revs, both of which are minutely managed at that level.

It is a skill that takes patience and practice to learn, people try a few times and give up. It might take months to get it right and years to master, but please do not dismiss it by saying "someone" reckons it makes no difference. It's OK to admit you can't do it, but don't give up after trying for 5 minutes. A fast laptime is not the only measure of driver skill.

To make you feel bad, I taught my wife to do it as just something you have to do when you drive a manual, she learned manual in about 8hrs, and was heel/toeing competently after a week or so.

My Son was taught the same way, and knows no different. Take the time, put in the work, your car (and lap times) will thank you.

Yes!!!

When learning, it's easier to get the action smooth under moderately heavy braking.  It takes a delicate touch to maintain only light but consistent pressure on the brake while blipping the throttle during slower decelerations.

I actually double clutch downshifts and happily take heat from all the pundits who reckon it's a waste of time and effort "bEcAuSe SyNcHrOs".  It's often those same people who then go on to complain about how Renault (or whoever) build their synchromesh cones out of soft cheese.

Is mechanical sympathy strictly necessary?  Of course not.  But it is something I try to aspire to.

[Matt205]

I love to double de-clutch just to freak people out. That look of absolute confusion as they try and understand what is going on.

[Marsch]

Puuuuh...not sure if I should join in on that discussion because things will only escalate I guess. I'd also like to keep this thread clean and not turn it into a heel/toe discussion. That's not the point of it and this section of the forum. But if you really want we can take it to somewhere else?