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Selling Fiesta ST for a second hand Clio RS200 EDC??


porkchop
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hi all, I am new to the forum and will need your advice on the Clio RS200 EDC :D

I am currently driving a Fiesta ST with Blufin Stage 1 tune, combined with a K&N filter, it should be putting out just a bit more than 150Kw at the crank, just the right amount of power for an open diff lightweight FWD.

It is a little gem to drive and definitely puts a big shit-eating-grin on my face every time I jump into the car. I never thought I could have so much fun doing legal speeds on the road, throw in a bit of twisty country roads and wind that little engine up, insta-jizz-in-the-pants... 

However, 'get rid of it and get an auto', SWMBO has served the ultimatum. She hates the colour, the number of doors (2), the ride (yes it can be very firm at low speeds) and most importantly the slick shifting manual box, so little Betsy must go. :(

I have been weighing up my options for an alternative small hot hatch, 208 GTI is out because it is also manual only, and I do not want to get another Polo GTI (had one before with APR tune, not as fun to drive, but quite a bit faster in a straight line), so the only small hatch that satisfies SWMBO's requirements is the Clio RS200 EDC Sport (Cup or Trophy would be nice, but I fear the suspension might be to crashy, and they also cost more). 

Before I commit to selling Betsy and buying a second hand RS200, I would like to seek you advice on the following:

   1. How reliable is the RS200? My aim is get one that is around 4 years old with ~70,000km on the clock. Will I run into much trouble? How does the double clutch gearbox hold up to routine enthusiastic driving? To be honest, I am a bit wary of buying a used French car. 

   2. Are parts and servicing expensive? Any expensive major services that I should look out for at certain mileages? 

   3. Are relatively cheap power mods available? I was able to buy a K&N panel filter and Bluefin handset to remap the ECU through OBD for just $500, imported from the UK, postage included.

   4. Any particular year models I should avoid or seek out? 

   5. Any common issues or things I should look out for on a used RS200? 

   6. Has anyone cross-shopped the RS and the ST or driven the two back to back? How much of the ST's fun (read: immature) characters and instant steering response will I lose by moving to the RS?  

 

Many thanks in advance and I look forward to becoming an RS owner soon... 8)

Edited by porkchop
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33 minutes ago, porkchop said:

hi all, I am new to the forum and will need your advice on the Clio RS200 EDC :D

I am currently driving a Fiesta ST with Blufin Stage 1 tune, combined with a K&N filter, it should be putting out just a bit more than 150Kw at the crank, just the right amount of power for an open diff lightweight FWD.

It is a little gem to drive and definitely puts a big shit-eating-grin on my face every time I jump into the car. I never thought I could have so much fun doing legal speeds on the road, throw in a bit of twisty country roads and wind that little engine up, insta-jizz-in-the-pants... 

However, 'get rid of it and get an auto', SWMBO has served the ultimatum. She hates the colour, the number of doors (2), the ride (yes it can be very firm at low speeds) and most importantly the slick shifting manual box, so little Betsy must go. :(

I have been weighing up my options for an alternative small hot hatch, 208 GTI is out because it is also manual only, and I do not want to get another Polo GTI (had one before with APR tune, not as fun to drive, but quite a bit faster in a straight line), so the only small hatch that satisfies SWMBO's requirements is the Clio RS200 EDC Sport (Cup or Trophy would be nice, but I fear the suspension might be to crashy, and they also cost more). 

Before I commit to selling Betsy and buying a second hand RS200, I would like to seek you advice on the following:

   1. How reliable is the RS200? My aim is get one that is around 4 years old with ~70,000km on the clock. Will I run into much trouble? How does the double clutch gearbox hold up to routine enthusiastic driving? To be honest, I am a bit wary of buying a used French car........   Gearbox needs getting used to. Think of it as a manual with an auto option. Fine for SWMBO to potter around in but works well in manual setting in Sport and Race modes for more 'spirited' driving with paddles or gear shift.

   2. Are parts and servicing expensive? Any expensive major services that I should look out for at certain mileages?.......  No more than any European car.

   3. Are relatively cheap power mods available? I was able to buy a K&N panel filter and Bluefin handset to remap the ECU through OBD for just $500, imported from the UK, postage included.  ........You can mod them in a similar way for good gains.

   4. Any particular year models I should avoid or seek out? ....2013 to 2016 basically the same. The Cup rides a little firmer than the basic Sport. All have the same 147kw engine.

   5. Any common issues or things I should look out for on a used RS200?.....Normal things for a used car.  Ensure the gearbox is smooth in auto and manual with no weird noises, especially in reverse. Being twin clutch they are not as smooth as a torque converter auto but you probably experienced this with your Polo GTI.

   6. Has anyone cross-shopped the RS and the ST or driven the two back to back? How much of the ST's fun (read: immature) characters and instant steering response will I lose by moving to the RS?  .....Fiesta is a fun car compared to the Clio mainly because it is manual, however the basic Sport will ride better and certainly lose nothing in performance and handling.

 

Many thanks in advance and I look forward to becoming an RS owner soon... 8)

Oh dear....a shame to have to let your little Fiesta go.  Others may have different views to mine above.  I have owned my Sport model from new for 3 years and nearly bought a Fiesta ST but my SWMBO could not drive a manual so the Clio was the alternative. I have had no dramas with it but have only done 30,000 km so far.

Please feel free to ask more questions on this forum.

Edited by chris043
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12 minutes ago, chris043 said:

Oh dear....a shame to have to let your little Fiesta go.  Others may have different views to mine above.  I have owned my Sport model from new for 3 years and nearly bought a Fiesta ST but my SWMBO could not drive a manual so the Clio was the alternative. I have had no dramas with it but have only done 30,000 km so far.

Please feel free to ask more questions on this forum.

Many thanks for your very useful comments.

I bought the ST sight unseen over the internet when I was working overseas, so I tried to spin the line that I thought it was an auto and it was a genuine mistake, SWMBO believed it for a nanosecond. I did try to teach her to drive the ST, but it did not end well and placed me firmly in the dog house.

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Owned a FiST for 2 years before trading it in for a Clio200EDC last year. Same reason as you :(

Through the corners, they are both very good. I got both cars tuned to stage 1, the Clio made more power and the FiST made more torque. Clio after the tune is definitely faster in a straight line than the FiST but by the time you get the sensation of speed and look at the speedo you will be way over the speed limit. The FiST on the other hand will feel faster than it really is (bit like the older Clio's).Tuning the Clio probably will cost a bit more than the plug and play Bluefin. There are plug and plays available but I will recommend you get it tuned by Racespec(Ace) and preferably on a dyno. 

I only had the FiST until 30k km and the Clio is currently at 20k km so cannot comment on the possible high mileage issues.

 

PS- I miss my FiST a lot - Will definitely buy again! 

 

 

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I bought a 2013 with 70K km on it so probably in your realm. No issues apart from the appalling way the car was treated cosmetically. Not an issue for me as I still have the Megane and the Clio sits outside.
Very very comfortable. Be aware some are still under warranty so worth checking that out.
It was inspected (after purchasing, not the smartest move) by Paul V but he was happy with it. He says the engines are fabulous. Though still probably too early to tell.

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I bought the Clio for the same reason. SWMBO said my daily had to be an auto and to be honest now my commute is 50km each way 5 days a week I'm glad I listened!

My car has been stage 1 tuned via RS Tuner. Similar concept to Bluefin but you get a bunch of diagnostics and pretty graphs to look at if you are into that sort of stuff. Really woke the car up and I threw it on early in ownership and have had no issues. My preference is to tune locally but nothing was available at the time. 

See if you can stretch for Sport Premium. I enjoy the R-link functions and the standard stereo has met most of my music need. The leather is holding up well on mine also and I have actually used the heated seats a few times. 

Good luck on your search. Post up your location. I would be happy to let you have a look at mine so you can compare to you ST. 

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Its French but also common with the Nissan Juke in the car world.  The motor is a Nissan and I'm sure some of the electrics in the bay are also Nissan bits.  I think you will like the clio but, its super around corners and the brakes work well.  I have also done the rstuner map so its very decent off the line too, e-diff function works in overtime out the corners now :p.  The gearbox is frustrating in auto mode as it shifts too late or too early and can sometimes feel jerky in traffic (I guess its shift map was for a standard tune).  But to get around that I always drive it in manual and that makes the daily drive a much smoother thing.  The ride depends on the model version you get also.  I drive a cup model and its stiff on SA roads, the sport model I think rides a little softer and then the trophy version I know is firmer and lower than the cup.

Filter from bmc is cheap and rstuner kit was around $600.  Then $100 for a deres and you have a very simple stage 1 setup done.

Edited by Timster
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Welcome!

The 200 Cup's ride is actually pretty good due to the hydraulic bump stops. It's firm but not crashy and better than the ST at low speeds.

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Many thanks all for all your comments. It looks like RS200 will suit my requirements.

Given your advice and the fact that I will inevitably compare it to the ST's handling prowess, I think I will go for the Cup version, a bit worried that the Sport version might be a bit too 'soft'.

If I am going for a 2013 or 2014 model, what was the length of warranty period back then? The same 5 year unlimited KM warranty that they are offering these days?

I am in the ACT, so don't exactly have that many options. Or maybe I can go up to Sydney and get this bad boy, it already has a long list of mods, and probably very hard driven KMs as well:

https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Renault-Clio-2014/SSE-AD-4955780/?Cr=1

 

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Many thanks all for all your comments. It looks like RS200 will suit my requirements.

Given your advice and the fact that I will inevitably compare it to the ST's handling prowess, I think I will go for the Cup version, a bit worried that the Sport version might be a bit too 'soft'.

If I am going for a 2013 or 2014 model, what was the length of warranty period back then? The same 5 year unlimited KM warranty that they are offering these days?

I am in the ACT, so don't exactly have that many options. Or maybe I can go up to Sydney and get this bad boy, it already has a long list of mods, and probably very hard driven KMs as well:

https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Renault-Clio-2014/SSE-AD-4955780/?Cr=1

 

That car was purchased from a forum member maybe 6 months ago IIRC. I'm pretty sure they paid at least $500 less than what they're advertising it for. Not sure why they're selling so quickly. Pretty sure the warranty was expired on it.

 

The 5 year warranty I thought was only for cars purchased after July 2014. Mine, for some unknown reason, was purchased February 2014 and still had it! The way I quadruple checked was calling the dealer who sold it, the dealer who serviced it, and Renault Australia (twice).

 

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8 hours ago, porkchop said:

Many thanks all for all your comments. It looks like RS200 will suit my requirements.

Given your advice and the fact that I will inevitably compare it to the ST's handling prowess, I think I will go for the Cup version, a bit worried that the Sport version might be a bit too 'soft'.

If I am going for a 2013 or 2014 model, what was the length of warranty period back then? The same 5 year unlimited KM warranty that they are offering these days?

I am in the ACT, so don't exactly have that many options. Or maybe I can go up to Sydney and get this bad boy, it already has a long list of mods, and probably very hard driven KMs as well:

https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Renault-Clio-2014/SSE-AD-4955780/?Cr=1

 

That is a good price for a 2014 Cup.  As Chuck said, from around July, 2014 they all had a 5 year warranty with roadside assist.

Some earlier models were also given a 5 year warranty to entice buyers but you would need to check with potential sellers.

Edited by chris043
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Just catching up on this thread.  SWMBO has the RS200 Cup Trophy, which was the designation at that time for what is now the Cup Premium - ie it has the RS Monitor, leather seats etc, and the Cup chassis (which includes the black 18 inch wkeels).  She loves it, and it has been great, with just a little glitch with the transmission that required the ECU for the transmission to be replaced, which occurred under warranty.  Hers has the 5 year warranty, and has over 45000km on it now with no issues apart from the aforementioned transmission matter.

The interior of the up-spec ones with the leather seats etc are a very nice place to be, with quality of finish pretty high.  

I'm not sure how harsh the suspension on the ST is on yours, but the Cup suspension on the Clio is pretty firm.  Later Trophy ones even more so I believe (haven't driven one of them so cannot report a personal comparison). Sport versions have a noticeably more compliant ride.

 FWIW, the used car buying of the Clios is pretty good too (that renowned Renault depreciation affects these as well), so you can get low km, newer ones for a great price, and have the extra warranty if that is a consideration fr you.

Hope that helps.

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Just catching up on this thread.  SWMBO has the RS200 Cup Trophy, which was the designation at that time for what is now the Cup Premium - ie it has the RS Monitor, leather seats etc, and the Cup chassis (which includes the black 18 inch wkeels).  She loves it, and it has been great, with just a little glitch with the transmission that required the ECU for the transmission to be replaced, which occurred under warranty.  Hers has the 5 year warranty, and has over 45000km on it now with no issues apart from the aforementioned transmission matter.
The interior of the up-spec ones with the leather seats etc are a very nice place to be, with quality of finish pretty high.  
I'm not sure how harsh the suspension on the ST is on yours, but the Cup suspension on the Clio is pretty firm.  Later Trophy ones even more so I believe (haven't driven one of them so cannot report a personal comparison). Sport versions have a noticeably more compliant ride.
 FWIW, the used car buying of the Clios is pretty good too (that renowned Renault depreciation affects these as well), so you can get low km, newer ones for a great price, and have the extra warranty if that is a consideration fr you.
Hope that helps.
I'm not sure about the depreciation on the IV - I was very irritated how much I had to pay for a three year old one! They do better than most RenaultSport models.
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1 hour ago, chuckovski said:
2 hours ago, No152 said:
Just catching up on this thread.  SWMBO has the RS200 Cup Trophy, which was the designation at that time for what is now the Cup Premium - ie it has the RS Monitor, leather seats etc, and the Cup chassis (which includes the black 18 inch wkeels).  She loves it, and it has been great, with just a little glitch with the transmission that required the ECU for the transmission to be replaced, which occurred under warranty.  Hers has the 5 year warranty, and has over 45000km on it now with no issues apart from the aforementioned transmission matter.
The interior of the up-spec ones with the leather seats etc are a very nice place to be, with quality of finish pretty high.  
I'm not sure how harsh the suspension on the ST is on yours, but the Cup suspension on the Clio is pretty firm.  Later Trophy ones even more so I believe (haven't driven one of them so cannot report a personal comparison). Sport versions have a noticeably more compliant ride.
 FWIW, the used car buying of the Clios is pretty good too (that renowned Renault depreciation affects these as well), so you can get low km, newer ones for a great price, and have the extra warranty if that is a consideration fr you.
Hope that helps.

I'm not sure about the depreciation on the IV - I was very irritated how much I had to pay for a three year old one! They do better than most RenaultSport models.

That could be true Chuck.  I was referring to what you can pick up a very good, low km late model one with warranty for as a percentage of the new cost.  Great buying as used cars...

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That could be true Chuck.  I was referring to what you can pick up a very good, low km late model one with warranty for as a percentage of the new cost.  Great buying as used cars...
That's a good point - a year old and it's a lot cheaper with low km. Absolute bargain. Four year old sport and 75K km I was hoping for $12K [emoji39]. Around 50% retained value at 4 years in my opinion is pretty good.
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Many thanks guys for all the extra advice. Will check out a Cup this weekend. Looking forward to it.

On depreciation, I think for a Renault the RS200 actually holds its value relatively well compared to garden variety versions of the Clio. However, from what I have seen, they usually take forever to sell compared to say Polo GTI or Fiesta ST (ok, the 208 GTI seems to be on a whole different level of 'difficult to sell'), which would normally force sellers to lower their asking prices, yet they don't.... strange economy with this one.... :?

If I could get a four year old example with 75,000km on the clock for $12k, I would wake up laughing, because it would be a very nice and happy dream... unfortunately... :( 

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5 hours ago, gabes1982 said:

For your reference, the RS200 Cup Trophy I test drove deal with undulation and speed humps better than the Polo GTi 6R I had.
(not sure which Polo you had before the FiST)

I had a 9N3 with a 20V 1.8T, tuned to 152Kw, it was a fun little motor, not particularly rev happy, but tons of mid-range torque and dare I say sounded better than the ST on stock exhaust. It rode better too, firm but not jiggly. But the trade off was that it felt a bit lazy when it came to changing directions and the steering rack was quite slow.

People rave about the Recaros in the ST, but I actually find the stock bucket seats in the 9N3 GTI more supportive, at least for me. And I have a weak spot for tartan patterns. 

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If I could get a four year old example with 75,000km on the clock for $12k, I would wake up laughing, because it would be a very nice and happy dream... unfortunately... [emoji20] 

Despite paying more than I wanted/expected, looking around for what else you can get for the price I was bloody happy! Also the warranty helped - nothing good at that price range had more than a few months at best left (standard dealer warranty).
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On 13/10/2017 at 1:10 AM, chuckovski said:

It would have been a pretty good deal at this price. 

I have seen quite a number of people deleting their resonator, including this one. From youtube videos, it looks like res delete does yield a better exhaust sound and it amplifies all the pops and crackles when changing gears. It would be something i would do to the car after getting it. But apart from the better exhaust sound, is there any power gain from res delete? It won't make the check engine light come on, will it?

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6 minutes ago, porkchop said:

 

I have seen quite a number of people deleting their resonator, including this one.

I've done it - infinitely better sound (incl pops) but not obnoxiously so. It makes the car sound like it should have, all along. No power gains and no engine light/ codes etc. :)

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Test drove a 2014 Sport yesterday.

Quite impressed. The interior is a couple of leagues above that of the ST's. The driving position was the first big plus I noticed. The driver sits lower in the cabin which I like, in the ST it feels like you sit 'on' instead of 'in' the car, despite the excellent Recaros. Did the entire test drive in Sport mode. Car sat pretty flat through corners and I could feel the e-diff doing its thing powering through corners. Flappy paddle response was good and the 'upshift burp' was highly entertaining, I can see why some people cut out the resonator to add to the drama. :D The car I test drove had 100,000km on the clock (probably won't get it due to its high mileage), the chassis still felt tight and ride quality was high, for once in a hot hatch I didn't have to clench my buttcheeks in anticipation of possible spinal injuries when going over road imperfections. Didn't notice any interior rattles or squeaks (which the ST has had since day one). Power delivery was pretty linear, so linear that I couldn't feel any distinctive 'power drop off point' which would prompt me to upshift, so I kept on hitting the rev limiter, haha. 

On the flip side, the engine was noticeably less torquey  (240Nm vs. 300Nm+) and did not pull as hard, I didn't get much of that 'pushed back to the seat' sensation when accelerating, although the EDC allowed almost uninterrupted power delivery, which was a good sensation. While steering was accurate and the car changed directions as commanded, but somehow there was a vague remoteness to the steering feel, the steering wheel did not 'load up' during corning, although I am sure I was no where near running out of front end grip, but the car simply couldn't communicate it to me through the steering wheel. More feedback from the front wheels would have been nice. I noticed that the RS's intercooler is side-mounted and of a small size, hopefully it is still adequate in our climatic conditions for spirited driving. 

Overall, it was a very solid driving experience which felt much more mature but less immediate than the ST.

Now gotta test the Cup next. 8)

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Welcome! I've driven all three chassis fairly extensively - Sport and Cup there isn't much difference in handling. They're both excellent. The Sport ride is noticeably more compliant. The 220 Trophy is on another level from a handling perspective with the penalty being a much firmer ride. I've also driven the ST and it reminded me of an old school hot hatch. Small, light, crashy, loose in the tail, etc. The Clio 4 handles superbly but is a lot more refined/composed when pushing hard. Of course some of us like a bit of rawness. Others don't. Personal preference.. And if you're sensing a lack of steering feel on the Clio, then don't bother with the Polo. The 2016 model that I had a drive of went hard in a straight line but complete disconnection between steering and driving wheels was my experience. Finally, unlike earlier Clio 2/3, Clio 4 has a timing chain which doesn't require the 4 yearly change of belt that pushes up ownership costs of the earlier cars.

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I've driven all three chassis fairly extensively - Sport and Cup there isn't much difference in handling. They're both excellent. The Sport ride is noticeably more compliant.


I find that surprising. I haven't driven a cup back to back with a sport, but I've never felt confident with pushing the sport, so much body roll compared to my Megane (unsurprisingly) - hence my perceived need for coilovers. Do you mean that the cup handles better but by such a small amount that the payoff in compliance isn't worth it?
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If you want an auto, buy an auto, not an EDC, SWMBO won’t like EDC, no torque converter = sh*tty gear changes, couple that with still firm suspension & things just got worse. Get her manual lessons (with an instructor) it’s a skill all drivers should have!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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On 10/20/2017 at 6:33 PM, chuckovski said:


 

 


I find that surprising. I haven't driven a cup back to back with a sport, but I've never felt confident with pushing the sport, so much body roll compared to my Megane (unsurprisingly) - hence my perceived need for coilovers. Do you mean that the cup handles better but by such a small amount that the payoff in compliance isn't worth it?

 

Yep fast road the Sport is more compliant over mid corner bumps and therefore handles better, and the Cup is only marginally better than Sport on track. THere's very little difference. Clio 4 Cup is softer than a Clio 3 Cup chassis. IMHO coilovers are overkill for the road. A decent set of aftermarket shocks and springs will do a better job. Saying that Renaultsport did/does a pretty epic job on the Clio 3/4 suspension. Hard to beat with any upgrade for road use.

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Yep fast road the Sport is more compliant over mid corner bumps and therefore handles better, and the Cup is only marginally better than Sport on track. THere's very little difference. Clio 4 Cup is softer than a Clio 3 Cup chassis. IMHO coilovers are overkill for the road. A decent set of aftermarket shocks and springs will do a better job. Saying that Renaultsport did/does a pretty epic job on the Clio 3/4 suspension. Hard to beat with any upgrade for road use.
I'm amazed at how comfortable the sport is, and trundling around town in normal mode you're basically in a good white goods car, aka Mazda 3 for example. Then it can transform into a beast! It's quite special.

I disagree about the EDC, I don't mind it and I hated our Skoda DSG. The missus loves it too. I would prefer a torque converter though...
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