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Rs250 Trofee Owner In Waiting


aress

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Hi everyone,

 

Brief intro - I'm shortly going to be retiring my Alfa 156 GTA in favour of a 250 Trofee as soon as I can find the right car. I'm after a silver, lunar grey or black Trofee with bi-xenons, 19s, and pref. leather seats, with no more than about 50kms on the lock, seem to be a few around that meet the criteria so I'll post some pics as soon as I have one parked in the driveway.

 

I'm Brisbane-based so good to see a few other Brisneylanders on the forum here.

 

Cheers,

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I'm a former 147 GTA owner and there are some other ex-Alfa guys hanging around here too.  The Megane is a better car in every respect except one. I still miss that V6. Surely the greatest mass production engine ever made?!

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Hey RBH, yeah your handle's familiar. 

 

I'm not looking forward to losing that V6 either - mine's effectively unsilenced and sounds epic through the Airport Link tunnel each night. In fact due to the numerous mods and updates my GTA feels good in most regards and unquestionably has that 'special' car feeling, but ultimately it's an old stager these days and I'm racking up too many kms for it to make sense. Have wanted an RS for a while now and now the timing's right (ie the Minister Of War And Finance is currently on board with the concept so time to act before there's a policy change...)

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Hey RBH, yeah your handle's familiar. 

 

I'm not looking forward to losing that V6 either - mine's effectively unsilenced and sounds epic through the Airport Link tunnel each night. In fact due to the numerous mods and updates my GTA feels good in most regards and unquestionably has that 'special' car feeling, but ultimately it's an old stager these days and I'm racking up too many kms for it to make sense. Have wanted an RS for a while now and now the timing's right (ie the Minister Of War And Finance is currently on board with the concept so time to act before there's a policy change...)

Always need to act before policy changes occur...  Most important part of the process after the initial approval...  :wink: There is a very good reason for the saying "who dares wins..."

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Hey RBH, yeah your handle's familiar. 

 

I'm not looking forward to losing that V6 either - mine's effectively unsilenced and sounds epic through the Airport Link tunnel each night. In fact due to the numerous mods and updates my GTA feels good in most regards and unquestionably has that 'special' car feeling, but ultimately it's an old stager these days and I'm racking up too many kms for it to make sense. Have wanted an RS for a while now and now the timing's right (ie the Minister Of War And Finance is currently on board with the concept so time to act before there's a policy change...)

 

We still have an Alfa in the house. The wife is an Alfisti even if I have no brand loyalties

 

MiTo%20QV%20P3NP_zpseg2riuti.jpg

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Always need to act before policy changes occur...  Most important part of the process after the initial approval...  :wink: There is a very good reason for the saying "who dares wins..."

 

Words to live by  :mrgreen:

 

RBH58 - as you may have read I've got a long Alfa history (over 20 to date including ***ahem*** 13 Alfasuds plus GTV6, GT Junior, 75, 164) but have interspersed these with many other models including BMW 3-series (E21, E30, E36), Mercedes (300E, 190E 2.5 16v), Peugeot (306 cabrio - don't ask), Mazda (MX5). For me it's about what it does rather than the badge on the nose and most have favoured handling and driver engagement over power. Which I guess explains the Alfasuds...

 

My wife used to have a BMW bent but was swayed by our first 156 and is now fully on the Alfa train. She's currently got a 159 Ti V6 Sportwagon that she loves, and has only just started talking to me again after the whole prospect of selling the GTA surfaced. She's still wavering on the RS250 so it will be a case of striking at the right moment.

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I have to say that having been a self confessed car nutter for my entire life, I have been interested in the current trend away from larger aspirated engines towards smaller forced induction power plants.  This approach is clearly driven by many factors, including the costs of manufacture (and ultimate sale price) but more significantly the fuel economy and carbon imprint, and is evident across the board with both cars and SUV's trending this way.  The good news as I see it, however, is that the technological advances have risen to the occasion, and the four cylinder turbo units (typically) that are replacing the once unbeatable V6 aspirated units in our favourite sports cars are often more powerful, have more torque (often just as low in the rev range), and of course use less fuel in all but the most comprehensive thrashings that we can give our toys.  Plus they are typically lighter as well, helping the weight overall (and fuel) but most importantly assisting to drive more optimum weight distributions to enhance the handling, braking and total driving experience.

 

What is missing (to an extent) - or is it again just different - is the exhaust note.  Take the V6 snarl of an R32 Golf compared with the Golf R, and you know what I mean.

 

That said, the Akrapovic exhaust on the 275R is truly intoxicating, at any rev range above idle, and really snarls (with the associated crackles and pops on lifting throttle) as the turbo 4 cylinder driving the noise hurtles you forward at a licence threatening rate, making a complete mockery of advisory speed signs in the corners  :D allowing all that improved technology in the chassis and underpinnings to rip you past the apex into the next corner.  It's what we love most after all I think.

 

So, rant nearly over, I guess there will always be nostalgia associated with a grunty, lumpy aspirated V motor which is hard to replace, but I think the car industry and technology advances are equally working hard to help we car lovers in that transition by creating vehicles that tick the PC boxes they need to tick while lighting smiles on our faces every time we drive them.  Not a better exhaust note, not worse necessarily, but different is all.  

 

And of course, the good folks at Renault in the RS Skunkworks are truly focused on making sure we keep smiling when we drive the latest of their special creations. May they keep doing so!!

 

Nice photo of the QF Alfa RBH.  Your girl has good taste...   Red with titanium wheels looks great!  Will be interesting to compare the driving and ownership experiences of the the Alfa versus the RS Megane over time.  I see many future posts on this topic... :D

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Hey Jason,

 

Yes, turbos have enjoyed a resurgence of late for all the sound reasons you’ve outlined and the technological advances have certainly addressed many of the historic shortcomings of this type of forced induction. They unquestionably have many advantages over atmo engines – as you’ve listed - and are the ‘configuration du jour’ for most manufacturers (I don’t think you can currently buy any BMW in Australia that’s not turbocharged). No question it's the current way forward.

 

There are still lots of things I like about a good atmo engine. Take the Alfa V6 – yes it has a great exhaust note but leaving it at that would be selling it a little short. Putting the sound aside for a moment, look first at its power and torque characteristics. Driving to work I frequently slot 6th in the 60km/h zones and just surf along on the low-rev torque that’s on offer from not much above idle. There’s no complaint, no hesitation, no juddering, no snatchiness. It feels as comfortable there as it does at its (admittedly conservation, for a 4-valve atmo V6 – it is an old design) 7000rpm redline. In between it has a lovely, linear delivery, obviously lacking the mid-range surge of a 4-cylinder turbo as its 300+nm aren't all present and accounted for until 4500rpm but even if you were wearing earplugs you would still revel in its driving characteristics.

 

Take the plugs out for a minute though and you’re in for a treat. At low revs it growls menacingly, turning into a snarl through the mid-range and a wail as it approaches the redline. It’s this complexity of sound through the rev range – emanating from the induction and engine as well as the exhaust - that give it with such character and charisma. It dominates the driving experience and endows it with a real heart and soul.

 

Spoken like a true Alfisti!  :mrgreen:

 

I’m not dissing turbo engines. Not for a minute. I am losing sleep over the delays in getting my backside into an RS250, probably more so that I can experience the chassis magic but I love a good rorty 4-cylinder and am really looking forward getting back into a turbo. But as a car nutter who believes automotive enjoyment comes in many shapes and forms I hope the atmo engine survives. The motoring landscape will be a lesser place without it.

Edited by aress
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There are still lots of things I like about a good atmo engine. Take the Alfa V6 – yes it has a great exhaust note but leaving it at that would be selling it a little short. Putting the sound aside for a moment, look first at its power and torque characteristics. Driving to work I frequently slot 6th in the 60km/h zones and just surf along on the low-rev torque that’s on offer from not much above idle. There’s no complaint, no hesitation, no juddering, no snatchiness. It feels as comfortable there as it does at its (admittedly conservation, for a 4-valve atmo V6 – it is an old design) 7000rpm redline. In between it has a lovely, linear delivery, obviously lacking the mid-range surge of a 4-cylinder turbo as its 300+nm aren't all present and accounted for until 4500rpm but even if you were wearing earplugs you would still revel in its driving characteristics.

 

Take the plugs out for a minute though and you’re in for a treat. At low revs it growls menacingly, turning into a snarl through the mid-range and a wail as it approaches the redline. It’s this complexity of sound through the rev range – emanating from the induction and engine as well as the exhaust - that give it with such character and charisma. It dominates the driving experience and endows it with a real heart and soul.

 

Spoken like a true Alfisti!  :mrgreen:

 

Busso V6. The greatest mass production engine ever made. The end!

 

Beautifully described BTW.  There was nothing "lumpy" about it's power delivery. On my 147GTA I could literally step off the clutch at idle (I don't mean "slip it", I mean "step off it"), and the car would just roll down the road. At 40kph you could slot it from 1st to 6th and put your foot to the floor and it would pull away without the slightest complaint. And it sounded glorious at idle, at the redline and everywhere inbetween. I still get a bit misty thinking about it.

Edited by RBH58
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Great atmo v engines are truly a joy. Think C63 AMG... Wonderful engineering no doubt. And in future I can foresee an entire generation that will understand 4 cinder growl (or electric whirring perhaps in the future). We older folk will remember rumble exhausts instead if growl and chirping tyres off idle. Just saying the transition to turbo 4's could be a whole lot worse than an RS rocketship and I for one will do my best to embrace them for the overall joy they give... Bring on the future but that doesn't mean we need forget the glorious past :)

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I think the problem is that the increasingly ubiquitous inline-4 is inherently the most boring sounding engine configuration of the lot.  I was in a Mini Cooper with the BMW 1.5 turbo triple in it the other day, and it sounded great...a bit like one of BMW's inline sixes in fact. 

Edited by RBH58
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I think the problem is that the increasingly ubiquitous inline-4 is inherently the most boring sounding engine configuration of the lot.  I was in a Mini Cooper with the BMW 1.5 turbo triple in it the other day, and it sounded great...a bit like one of BMW's inline sixes in fact. 

Maybe a car manufacturer can experiment with a cross plane crank configuration (think Yamaha R1) and slap a turbo on for good measure.  That could be interesting both audibly and via the seat-o-pants-a-meter... I give that concept out free of any patent constraint...   :D

 

Triples in the motorcycle world have always been a good sounding thing (thanks Triumph) but seem to lose a little in the translation to four wheels (Daihatsu charade turbo anyone...?).  Perhaps an RS version of the TCe 90 is on the cards in future...

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Maybe a car manufacturer can experiment with a cross plane crank configuration (think Yamaha R1) and slap a turbo on for good measure.  That could be interesting both audibly and via the seat-o-pants-a-meter... I give that concept out free of any patent constraint...   :D

 

Triples in the motorcycle world have always been a good sounding thing (thanks Triumph) but seem to lose a little in the translation to four wheels (Daihatsu charade turbo anyone...?).  Perhaps an RS version of the TCe 90 is on the cards in future...

The crossplane 4 certainly sounds heaps better but I really can't see any mass car manufacturer engineering one. In most car applications, the advantage is probably pretty moot....except for the sound. And the reason the crossplane 4  sounds better is because it has a slightly irregular firing sequence which may not go down that well with mainstream car buyers who might think the engine feels rough.  Anyway, I can't see it happening outside of the superbike world.

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I agree. Tongue was firmly in cheek. Cars seem to be desirable by mainstream buyers when they are smooth and quiet. No real NVH industry in the super bike world...

 

Luckily some of us still appreciate a good note from our vehicles. A challenge for makers of electric vehicles in future...

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Hi Aress and a warm welcome to Oz Renault.  Good to see you have made your decision, yes you will miss the Busso as per myself and RBH however you will find the overall RS package to be way superior.  That said be warned, the Busso virus does linger !!!

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Update on this thread – I went to check out my first example, a 2011 RS250 in Lunar Grey with just the right spec (19s, xenons, leather, parking sensor, 57km, full service history, ~$25k). In the pics it looked excellent, helped by a nice window tint best described as ‘darkest legal… plus a bit darker’. In the flesh it wasn’t quite so flash, not helped by the poor presentation - do vendors really not understand how off-putting it is when they don’t bother to wash or vacuum the car before a viewing? Even looking past the surface dirtiness it was disappointingly scruffy inside with numerous scratches and marks around the cabin plastics, most of which I’m sure could be worked out with the right products and expertise but from that starting point you just don’t know what might still remain after all the effort. And the condition is a worrying pointer to a lack of care. Also, the alloys were quite marked with gutter rash – superficial, but extensive - despite previously being assured they had minimal marks that you really had to be looking for.

 

The test drive was a little compromised in that I had two kids in tow and the owner insisted on coming along so it was little more than a tootle around the block, not very telling at all but by that stage my interest was waning anyway.

 

I left quite disappointed and without any commitment, however after a few medicinal beers and in a ‘what the hell’ frame of mind I flicked the owner an email with an offer somewhere (but not ridiculously) lower than the asking price. He declined as anticipated and I responded by saying thanks but we’d leave it there.

 

A few hours later I received another email from the owner with a counter offer at almost my initial offer if a deal could be done without a safety certificate, “Not that anything needs to be done…”. Hmmm. Not having a crack at the seller and I have no reason to believe that there is anything wrong with the car, but the whole scenario wasn’t putting me at ease.

 

Another reason this wasn’t so appealing is that there may be another example coming on the market in my area which I know to be vastly more appealing for potentially only a couple of grand more than the one I viewed. Sadly it’s out of my already stretched price range but I was struggling with the prospect of handing over a fist full of cash for the first one in the knowledge that only a little more would secure something so much better.

 

Even more sadly, the day after all this we had an unexpected change of circumstance which will have a considerable effect on the weekly household income, so the whole RS250 plan is now on the shelf. I’m hoping this is a temporary state of affairs but it won’t be until September at least before I am back in a position to pick this up again. I still need a car immediately but my sights have by necessity plummeted, and have to say that trawling the classifieds for a 10k Ford Focus (or similar) is one of the most depressing things I’ve had to do. Needs must, but I have never been good with sensible car purchases.

 

Anyway, I hope I’ll be back here in a few months with better news, all the best in the meantime.

 

Cheers,

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Hmmm. Interesting. And tempting.  Thanks for posting that.

 

To be honest though, this 10k maximum purchase really has to be driven by practical factors and what we're after is minimal running costs and maximum resale/ease of sale when it comes to replacing it. Driving enjoyment is down the priority list for once and neither do I want to be stuck with something 'quirky' that appeals only to a niche market at the end of the time.

 

Trust me, I don't like this any more than any of you would!

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